Vortexes

[Lainey]

I don't think I've seen these mentioned on this site before. Now before you go thinking I'm some kind of New-Age nut, have a look at this:

http://montanavortex.com/

I admit, I haven't read the site yet. However, I have been there. And it's not the only one--I know there's another one in Creston, British Columbia. There's also a place where I grew up, in the Crowsnest Pass, that if you put your car in neutral, it will roll uphill all by itself.

Now when I was at the one in Montana, you walk through this house, and you can't stand up straight. It's a very strange experience. So strange, in fact, that I'm sure some would think it's the work of a demon. So I thought it would be fun to talk about it here.

Calling all Christians and scientists: Natural phenomena, or the work of the devil?

[Jose]

That one goes way back to a long stretch of time when night really was dangerous. Now it's only appropriate in certain parts of town.

Exactly so. Being afraid of "monsters" and especially of "the dark" when monsters prowl is a human instinct--inborn, genetically coded. For most of us, Mom and Dad try to tell us there really is nothing under the bed or in the closet and that there's nothing to be afraid of. If Mom and Dad try to teach us otherwise, it must be that we are born with the fear, rather than learning it, eh?

As QED has said, Lainey, night used to be really dangerous. Those of our ancestors who were afraid of the Things out there lived until morning; the macho dudes who went out got eaten. We inherited their fear.

The trick now is to recognize when such fear is appropriate (certain parts of town) and when it's not (thinking about silly numbers), and then try to reason with it. It's also helpful to recognize that as a genetic trait, it's going to be variable, so that there are people who aren't afraid of anything and like to take risks, and become Navy Seals. There will also be people who go and hide in "an undisclosed location" until they think it's safe to poke their heads out again. Very interesting, really.

I kinda think it helps to recognize that a lot of the things we feel and wonder about are holdovers from a distant past, and that they made sense at one time. It's not goofiness, for example, but hard-earned lessons--even if the real target of the emotion isn't there any more.

[QED]

I kinda think it helps to recognize that a lot of the things we feel and wonder about are holdovers from a distant past, and that they made sense at one time. It's not goofiness, for example, but hard-earned lessons--even if the real target of the emotion isn't there any more.

What other explanation would make half as much sense. These sorts of feelings are incredibly difficult to overrule using our conscious will. This indicates that they're as hard-wired as our breathing. Another good example is the modern tendency towards obesity. The lure of the doughnut is a holdover from the times when fats and sugars were scarce but valuable commodities. Our bodies were programmed a long time ago to lock onto such targets as a matter of survival. How Ironic that now, when sugars and fats are available in abundance, survival sometimes means fighting off these very same urges.

So consistent is this (evolutionary) explanation that I would dare say that we could explain any other human urge or instinct in this way. Are there any other curiosities that we can think of to test the theory?

[Cathar1950]

When my children were young I told them they shouldn't be afraid of monsters under their bed because they are more afraid of them or they wouldn't be hiding under their beds.
Now my kids don't belive a thing I say.

[sue]

That one goes way back to a long stretch of time when night really was dangerous. Now it's only appropriate in certain parts of town.

Exactly so. Being afraid of "monsters" and especially of "the dark" when monsters prowl is a human instinct--inborn, genetically coded. For most of us, Mom and Dad try to tell us there really is nothing under the bed or in the closet and that there's nothing to be afraid of. If Mom and Dad try to teach us otherwise, it must be that we are born with the fear, rather than learning it, eh?

As QED has said, Lainey, night used to be really dangerous. Those of our ancestors who were afraid of the Things out there lived until morning; the macho dudes who went out got eaten. We inherited their fear.

The trick now is to recognize when such fear is appropriate (certain parts of town) and when it's not (thinking about silly numbers), and then try to reason with it. It's also helpful to recognize that as a genetic trait, it's going to be variable, so that there are people who aren't afraid of anything and like to take risks, and become Navy Seals. There will also be people who go and hide in "an undisclosed location" until they think it's safe to poke their heads out again. Very interesting, really.

I kinda think it helps to recognize that a lot of the things we feel and wonder about are holdovers from a distant past, and that they made sense at one time. It's not goofiness, for example, but hard-earned lessons--even if the real target of the emotion isn't there any more.

That's a good point.

You also have to throw personal philosophy and self-awareness into the equation. For example, let's say someone's basic philosophy is that hurting people is bad. This person might also have realized that when fight-or-flight response is triggered, they tend to go with fight. In that case the most humane option is to get away until the fight-or-flight response has also gone away. A person could relearn their response over time, given a controlled environment and moderation. That sort of treatment is best left to a licensed therapist.

But also, stalking laws exist presumably because enough people in our society have concluded that it's a crime that would induce fear and lower the quality of life for most reasonable people.

[Lainey]

Early manuscripts have found 616 instead of 666.
Does that help any?
I want to know what you have heard about blarney stones.
This could change a lot of plans I have made.

Well, no. I knew about that (thanks to this site), but it's still 666 that I don't like. I don't even believe in a devil, for Pete's sake(who's Pete, anyway? ) And I don't even believe there was a biblical Jesus, so the term "Antichrist" doesn't really mean anything to me. According to Al/John, I'd be one of them myself.

As for the Blarney Stone, just don't kiss it!

You once spent a whole year being 13 -- and you seem to have made it through OK. I wouldn't worry about it anymore.

The thing is, I don't worry about it. I just don't like the number. You might say I'm unfairly prejudiced against the number 13, which never did anything to me, really.

That one goes way back to a long stretch of time when night really was dangerous. Now it's only appropriate in certain parts of town.

Oh yeah, I lived there. That makes sense, I guess, but I feel silly when I can't sleep, even though I know there's nothing there! It doesn't help that my kitties occasionally stare at the corner or towards the closet and howl. I think they do it on purpose...

It also doesn't help that the guy that lives below me screams for no reason, and wonders around in the hallways at 4:30 in the morning shouting, "SHUT THE F*** UP!" when there's nobody making any noise except him.

I kinda think it helps to recognize that a lot of the things we feel and wonder about are holdovers from a distant past, and that they made sense at one time. It's not goofiness, for example, but hard-earned lessons--even if the real target of the emotion isn't there any more.

What other explanation would make half as much sense. These sorts of feelings are incredibly difficult to overrule using our conscious will. This indicates that they're as hard-wired as our breathing. Another good example is the modern tendency towards obesity. The lure of the doughnut is a holdover from the times when fats and sugars were scarce but valuable commodities. Our bodies were programmed a long time ago to lock onto such targets as a matter of survival. How Ironic that now, when sugars and fats are available in abundance, survival sometimes means fighting off these very same urges.

So consistent is this (evolutionary) explanation that I would dare say that we could explain any other human urge or instinct in this way. Are there any other curiosities that we can think of to test the theory?

Mmm...fats and sugars! My downfall, I'm afraid.

Other curiosities? Let me think...what do you consider a curiosity/urge/instinct?

Liquor?

Gambling?

Attachment to pets?

Why the people in our society who entertain us are paid more than the people who do more worthwhile work?

Workaholics? Personally, I think I'd rather be a bum.

When my children were young I told them they shouldn't be afraid of monsters under their bed because they are more afraid of them or they wouldn't be hiding under their beds.
Now my kids don't belive a thing I say.

Cathar, you funny man!

When I was a kid, I was afraid to be away from my mother. Turns out, she's scarier than any monster...

[upallnite]

Upallnite, next thing you know, they're gonna try to tell us there's no such thing as a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! All those Saturday afternoons, wasted! By the way, where'd you get the funky smiley, and what does it mean? Why is one of them blue?

It is just a smilly picking on another smilly. As for one of them being blue, I didn't think they had to be yellow. I get my smillies from my favorite site(streetsourcemag.com).

Here is the list of them if you ever want to use them. Some of them should not be used here.
http://www.streetsourcemag.com/Chatroom/FAQ.asp

Some of my favorites...

[QED]

So consistent is this (evolutionary) explanation that I would dare say that we could explain any other human urge or instinct in this way. Are there any other curiosities that we can think of to test the theory?

Other curiosities? Let me think...what do you consider a curiosity/urge/instinct?

Liquor?

Gambling?

Attachment to pets?

Why the people in our society who entertain us are paid more than the people who do more worthwhile work?

Workaholics? Personally, I think I'd rather be a bum.

Liquor? Well that's something that's evolved along with us. Certainly people have been fermenting and consuming alcohol for thousands of years -- it was once the only way to guarantee that water was safe for drinking. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the human physiology has adapted to it to such a degree as to actually require it in moderate quantities to attain optimum all-round well-being. Doctors routinely recommend a moderate amount of alcohol each week (usually red wine) and the psychological effects are frequently conducive to procreation (again, only for moderate dosages ). So there are many positive contributions towards selecting for a human interest in Liquor.

Gambling? Oh, now there's a fine balance that only evolution can strike. In the general sense, too little gambling and nothing is gained. Too much and all is lost. Like Liquor it can have a positive contribution in the right doses. Imagine people who were too cautious to take any risks. They'd never venture out of their caves and fade out of the gene pool in next to no time.

Attachment to pets? Even my lazy cat knows deep down what he's for. Every so often he gets an irresistible urge to explore the attic or the basement -- or anywhere that small pests might be hiding. All manner of animals have been domesticated to provide useful functions like this. Our attachment is a highly important part of that "deal" which is imprinted in both sets of genes.

Why the people in our society who entertain us are paid more than the people who do more worthwhile work? Because entertainment is big business and is always on the lookout for talent. It's a definite case of survival of the fittest in that trade and nobody falls harder than an entertainer who's lost the knack of entertaining.

Workaholics? Evolution might just weed these out one day. The current fashion for females to leave it later and later to start a family is beginning to have an impact on the populations of developed countries. But behaviour that allows males to put more on the table has traditionally been a positive selection factor so workaholism is still deeply ingrained in the male chromosome. Maybe that's why you say you'd rather be a bum