When You Fast

[Angel song]

Matt 6:16 states, When you give alms; when you pray; when you fast.

Some argue that fasting is not applicable today despite Matt 6 stating to the contrary.

What is your view and do you fast?

[Divine Insight]

When I was a Christian the concept of fasting was never mentioned. It was certainly nothing our family or church ever practiced insofar as I am aware.

Later when I moved on to the Eastern mystical philosophies I found the idea of fasting to be prevalent, but potentially for a different reason. I mean, it was still connected to spirituality, but more so with the idea of cleansing the body and clearing the mind.

It is known even today by modern scientific doctors that fasting (or at least eating very light foods and lots of water) can improve cognitive clarity. A person is more likely to have dreams when they are on a very light diet than they are if they overeat. The mind is also capable of thinking more clearly.

Another thing that might be relevant here too, is that the Bible was written by mystic Jews who were trying very hard to have a spiritual experience. When I say "mystic" I don't mean that they were like the Eastern Mystics, but simply that they were hungry for a mystical experience with the divine. They wanted to have the divine visions that the saints from the ancient Torah supposedly had.

Fasting is a way of heightening our ability to dream and have visions. And visions are how the divine communed with the saints. So the idea of fasting was not to honor God but to simply encourage a divine experience of mystical vision.

And of course, this is mostly what they were praying for as well. They were actually praying to the divine to commune with them and give them a divine revelation. In fact, they had a whole system of gates they needed to pass through to reach the divine. That system was known as the Kabbalah. It's still used today in many different forms.

I use a system of Kabbalah myself known as the Qabalah. Different spelling, and different perspective on the same basic underlying ideas. In fact, I have modified my Qabalah via my own divine visions that have come to me in dreams.

It's quite interesting to me that the basic idea is that God communes with us via psychic visions, yet many people reject their own psychic visions and dreams as being irrelevant.

I have been drawn to the Qabalah through psychic visions. And I have modified my Qabalah using the divine insight that I have gained from these psychic visions. Because of this I view "My Qabalah" as having spiritual meaning for me.

This does not mean that "My Qabalah" would be right for anyone else. It may be inspirational for others, but it can't be totally correct for them as is, because they would need to be divinely inspired to model their own Qabalah or Kabbalah in a way that fits their relationship with the divine. Not everyone has the same relationship with the divine, therefore there cannot be just one correct Qabalah.

Everyone's Qabalah is slightly different. It's basic structure will always be very similar, but the pathways will differ dramatically. And the pathways are what is important. Because in essence the Qabalah is a MAP. And it's a map of our relationship with the divine.

Sorry, for the long aside, but for me it's totally relevant to fasting. Not that a person needs to fast to work with the Qabalah, but because the original idea of fasting was to encourage a divine connection or vision of divine purpose, and this is also what the Qabalah or Kabbalah is all about.

I might also add that in Eastern spiritual traditions Mandalas are used instead of the Kabbalah. But it is precisely the same fundamental idea. A Mandala is a map of life representing the path or purpose of the one who creates it. And, of course, this map or Mandala is not created by the individual alone, but through mediation and a connection with the divine. So the Mandala is a MAP of a person's relationship with the divine.

Mandalas vary greatly because individual often create their own Mandalas from scratch. Others do use a foundational pattern to build from. It is believed by many scholars that the Kabbalah was actually a particular Mandala that became the focus of the early Hebrews or Jews. Many even believe that it originated in the Far East. This particular Mandala didn't "stick" in the Far East like it did in the Middle East because in the Far East Mandalas were given more flexibility and no one got too hung up on any one particular map. But the Hebrews tended to be more simple-minded and once they got an idea they acted like it was the "One True Truth", just as they tended to think about all their religious ideals.

The Kabbalah is a very nicely designed Mandala though, this much is true.

So next time you're fasting get out a Kabbalah or Mandala and check it out. Maybe you'll have a divine vision.

[Strider324]

Matt 6:16 states, When you give alms; when you pray; when you fast.

Some argue that fasting is not applicable today despite Matt 6 stating to the contrary.

What is your view and do you fast?

I believe the standard apologetic is that this is an example of one of the old covenent laws that no longer need to be followed - although we still have to hate phags....and women.

[bluethread]

Matt 6:16 states, When you give alms; when you pray; when you fast.

Some argue that fasting is not applicable today despite Matt 6 stating to the contrary.

What is your view and do you fast?

I believe the standard apologetic is that this is an example of one of the old covenent laws that no longer need to be followed - although we still have to hate phags....and women.

Just to verify your credibility on this subject, could you please identify the "old covenent law" to which you refer?

[Robert H]

[Replying to post 1 by Angel song]

If someone was a Christian and never heard of fasting, we are left to wonder what basement centered Christian offshoot they found themselves in.

Fasting has a couple of reasons behind it. First, it is used as a small means of sacrifice. In essence, someone fasting is willing to give up something that the physical body absolutely needs in order to obtain some sort of spiritual experience. Usually a person is looking for an answer to a prayer or perhaps guidance in their lives.

Like when Jesus was about to being his mission, he goes into the wilderness and fasts to commune with his father. He spent this time communing, learning, and preparing himself for his mission.

Sometimes fasting is used to gain spiritual power, as in the case where the apostles could not cast out devils and Jesus told them that they cant do it without prayer AND fasting. Meaning, had they spiritually prepared themselves to do so? Nope, not without the fasting part of the spiritual experience.

Finally, fasting can be used as a way to help those who are poor and need food. Along with the prayer and spiritual enlightenment that can come from fasting, the person can decide to give that food to the poor, or more likely the monetary value as some sort of fast offering.

Hope this helps

[cnorman18]

When I was a Christian, I once fasted for three days, taking nothing but water and breaking the fast on Sunday morning with Holy Communion. It was a profound experience, physically and spiritually. When I was in seminary and had to teach the class (it was a class on teaching), I chose that topic. Most of my fellow students did not know that fasting was still practiced among Christians, and found it fascinating. (Interestingly, the professor also fell into that category.)

First, physically; the hunger vanishes after the first day. One grows weaker as the fast goes on, but only enough to be just noticeable. One notices a headache beginning at some time during the second day, but again, not a severe one; though it grows more intense as the fast goes on, it never becomes really debilitating. Bad breath appears at about that same time, and it will grow worse too. Nothing much can be done about either. One's senses grow astonishingly acute; smells and sounds seem almost three-dimensional. By the time of that Sunday morning service, I could smell the wine when the priest uncovered the chalice -- and I was sitting in the last pew. The taste of it was amazingly sweet and intense.

The mental effects are as profound as the physical. One becomes aware, first, of how much of one's day revolves around and is divided up by mealtimes and eating! As the fast goes on, one feels rather unmoored from reality, with one foot in another realm, so to speak, since one's chief anchor to the physical world is, well, unhooked. One's mental state becomes more and more meditative and contemplative, and by the third day, the mind is essentially silent; one is only aware, of one's surroundings and one's perceptions, and the constant internal commentary -- the "train of thought" -- is, er, derailed. One simply IS. I suppose I must have prayed, but I don't specifically remember that.

I experienced no supernatural visions or other paranormal phenomena; I felt more real, more in-the-moment, more there than I ever have before or since (with the exception of a few days of "mental silence" and awareness some years later, an unrelated though similar experience).

I was in my 20s then, and for a young person with a few days off, I'd recommend trying it -- just for the meditative and sensory experience, if nothing else. If one is older, it might be more difficult.

As a Jew, of course, one fasts every year -- from all food AND drink, including water, for a period of 25 hours on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. It is not as uncomfortable as one might think -- an afternoon "Yom Kippur nap" helps, and most of the day is spent in services anyway -- but it does not last long enough for the profound physical and mental effects of a longer fast. It is strictly a religious obligation and practice, the climax of the High Holy Days observances.

I am now 63 and diabetic, and so have actually been FORBIDDEN to fast for the last few years; one may not fast if it is even remotely a danger to one's health. The elderly, the ill, and those on daily medication or other medical treatment (e.g. dialysis, asthma medication or a pacemaker) are also forbidden to fast. Children under the age of 12 or 13 (girls and boys respectively -- Bar and Bat Mitzvah age) are not required to fast, either, though many begin a year or three early.

There are other fasts during the Jewish year, mostly half-day fasts -- the Fast of the Firstborn before Passover, the Fast of Esther before Purim, and so on. These are not as widely observed as the Yom Kippur fast, but they remain on the calendar anyway.

That's my experience. Should others try it? I have no opinion. It can be interesting, but I wouldn't call it a "requirement" for anything. I will say this, though; if you are anything other than totally confident and secure in your good health, check with your physician first, no matter what your age. Do NOT attempt a fast longer than three days (except under a physician's care), and do NOT attempt ANY kind of fast if you are under ANY kind of stress or pressure. You should have the time free to savor the experience, without any kind of obligations or tasks to perform or deadlines to meet, without any kind of worries or crises to deal with. Ordinary daily stresses are unavoidable and fine, but if there is anything especially preying on your mind or causing you to worry, that would not be a good time.

That's my take. Hope it was helpful and perhaps illuminating; I don't really see anything to debate here myself, but YMMV.

[Haven]

I'm an atheist and metaphysical naturalist , and I fast (never for more than 24 hours) occasionally. I do it for both health and kindness: I find it cleansing for the body to go without eating for brief periods, and I donate the money I would have spent on food during that time period to charity or others in need. It's a good experience, even within a secular framework, but I wouldn't suggest a 40-day fast or anything longer than 24 hours, as that can be harmful to your health.