Illegal Immigration

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Funny. It appears as if the unregulated free market embraced by today's religious right DOES have it's limitations.

When a greedy CEO decides to cut health care benefits for minimum wage workers in order to further engorge his profits, that's perfectly legit. But when a foreign laborer willing to work twice as hard for half the pay gets hired over you, THEN WE HAVE AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!

I'm tired of all the capitalist pigs complaining about losing jobs to Hispanics. This is the form of society you have embraced. Now you get to deal with the competition it entails.




Here's an idea: force companies to pay all workers the same wages, and there is no incentive to hire the immigrant over your average blue collar worker. Problem solved.

Is it really this simple, or am I just missing something?

What is the purpose of the complex naturalization process? I always thought America was the land of opportunity. Suddenly it has become an exclusive membership club. We assert the joys of a free market all over the world, but wish to deny certain groups of people these same rights on the home front.

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

Would this cause any signifigant economic backlashes? The workforce would be no more saturated than it all ready is, right? I'm asking you guys... I'm no economist.



Please share your ideas and solutions.

[1John2_26]

There is no getting through the socialist Marxist mind. Nature has to cleanse that wound. In California, the socialists that run that country do not have the money available to suck out of the honest workforce.

Too many "illegal" aliens are siphoning off public funds by the millions (people that is.) Mexicans bring their ignorance and apathy to this country and will not lift a hand to fight the corruption that flows in their culture. A nationwide sweep of gang members collected Latino's by the truckload. All criminals committing crimes that the Latino La Raza soldiers will not combat.

There is not enough money to be taken by taxation to pay for the n umbers of human beings taking from the social programs that are barely useful anyway.

Globalization is a joke because even eithin the "Mexican" are prejudices between different sects of Mexicans and the disdain each Latin culture has for each other is well-documented. Gangs from Mexico fight each other while Mexicans come to America and form litle Mexico's all over this land.

Granted and acknowledgeed that many Mexican people are as fine as it gets, but the community itself is perpetuating the criminals that proliferate among that culture. Foreign children cannot be taught within the American education system by setting up a Mexican education system within America. That is racism for one thing and counter-productive to a better society. There just is not the money for it and it is not fair to Americans anyway.

In India, the population speaks English that is thriving and becoming "well off." My Indian-American friend was taught in Indian and has a thriving business here in America serving Americans in English. Mexicans can become successful, but it should not be allowed in a Spanish-only format. That is unacceptable and racism. Ameircans should not be forced to endure another nation rising on its soil.

We are called to defend America from attacks and foreign and domestic. With Mexicans, we get both.

Why is it that Mexicans can have La Raza phone books in Spanish only, but America must accomodate Mexicans everywhere in Spanish? The La Raza thing is a crime against America and it needs to be opposed on racism lines.

Illegal immigration is illegal activity. Let us never forget or, allow another wiping away of morality under the paint of "political correctness." The great civilizations fall from within. Then again, that may be the best thing that happens to America. The leftists will reap what they sow and the moralists will come out OK in the end.

[juliod]

Don't forget the $60,000,000,000 we waste every year maintaining our Cold War nuclear programs.

a) That's DoE, not DoD.

b) I think the actual figure (FY07) is $24,000,000,000. For that we maintain 10,000 warheads, or at least 10 times the amount we need to decimate any nation or group of nations that might threaten us.

BTW, it is projected that our FY07 defense budget (excluding nuclear weapons and the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan) will be larger than the rest of the world's military expenditures combined. Combined.

DanZ

[juliod]

Too many "illegal" aliens are siphoning off public funds by the millions (people that is.)

But returning many times that figure in uncompensated labor. When you buy vegetables at the store you are being subsidized by the illegals who work for an uneconomic wage. How do you feel about that?

There is not enough money to be taken by taxation to pay for the n umbers of human beings taking from the social programs that are barely useful anyway.

Spoken like a true neo-christian.

My Indian-American friend was taught in Indian

There's no language called "Indian".

DanZ

[bernee51]

In India, the population speaks English that is thriving and becoming "well off."

The 'well-off' speak English - the vast majority speak one of the many other languages - Hindi, Malayam, Punjabi, Tamil and so on - with maybe a smattering of English.

The reason English is spoken in India is the same reason Spanish is spoken in Mexico. (and why English - if it can be called that - is spoken in the main in the USofA)

[1John2_26]

But returning many times that figure in uncompensated labor. When you buy vegetables at the store you are being subsidized by the illegals who work for an uneconomic wage. How do you feel about that?

Pay them better, tax them, make them pay their own health care charges at the ER's where they go for Doctor's visits. The ones working here for little to nothing are hurting the economy.

I'm done in this thread. I actually support those people that want to do things right. That includes the people that come here for the betterment of their children. I would do the same thing. That is why I won't live in California.

I just cannot ruffle feathers for the fun of it. Though socialists will make bad things get worse. California is a prime example of the worthlessness of this ideology. The other illegals that come here for no good reasons or commit crimes should be dealt with very harshly.

Adios.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Pay them better, tax them, make them pay their own health care charges at the ER's where they go for Doctor's visits.

Then you agree with my plan- that we should legalize them rather than bar them from entering?

What are we even arguing over?

Is this all about them speaking Spanish? We should require them to adapt to an essential amount of English, I can accede to that. However, wiping out their cultural roots and coercing them into humble patriotic reverence, as you would have it, is unacceptable.

There is not enough money to be taken by taxation to pay for the n umbers of human beings taking from the social programs that are barely useful anyway.

The United States has enough tax money to provide estensive health care and worker benefits for every single person on the planet. Ten times over.

Of course, not that we would ever put this revenue to any productive use. All $400,000,000,000+ of it is currently going towards deadly killing devices, 99% of which we will never use (anyone remember the B2 stealth bomber?).

In California, the socialists that run that country do not have the money available to suck out of the honest workforce.

California's workforce? One of the highest paid workforces on earth?

I find that hard to believe.

[ENIGMA]

In India, the population speaks English that is thriving and becoming "well off."

The 'well-off' speak English - the vast majority speak one of the many other languages - Hindi, Malayam, Punjabi, Tamil and so on - with maybe a smattering of English.

The reason English is spoken in India is the same reason Spanish is spoken in Mexico. (and why English - if it can be called that - is spoken in the main in the USofA)

Reminds me of a small joke I heard over in Barcelona:

What do you call someone who speaks more than two languages? Multilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks only one language? American.

A little sad, a little funny, but fairly spot on.

Just like the time I got a good laugh for describing the extent of the Atlanta Metro system.

[Cephus]

But returning many times that figure in uncompensated labor. When you buy vegetables at the store you are being subsidized by the illegals who work for an uneconomic wage. How do you feel about that?

It's not uncompensated labor, it's just cheap labor. None of the illegals are being held captive and forced to work for free, they are willingly doing it. Don't feel sorry for them, they can go back to Mexico any time they want.

Further, it costs much more to the taxpayer than any potential savings. We have to educate them, pay for their health care, prosecute and house them in prisons, pay welfare to them, etc. In the end, the taxpayer loses but companies don't care, they don't have to directly pay the costs of their cheap labor.

How do I feel about that? Chuck the illegals back across the border, I've got no problem paying a couple extra cents for a head of lettuce, which is exactly what costs would increase without them.

[Cephus]

Then you agree with my plan- that we should legalize them rather than bar them from entering?

Nope. We should fix the currently broken naturalization process for people who want to become US citizens. People who just want to come here for a paycheck should continue to be barred from doing so.

Is this all about them speaking Spanish? We should require them to adapt to an essential amount of English, I can accede to that. However, wiping out their cultural roots and coercing them into humble patriotic reverence, as you would have it, is unacceptable.

Years ago, California passed a law that stated that English is the official state language and everything official would only be done in that language. The liberal whiners sued and got that changed real quick.

[juliod]

It's not uncompensated labor, it's just cheap labor.

You can look at it that way. If you work for a substandard wage, then you might view it as working for a normal wage for 5 hours, then 3 hours for free. In essense they are donating their labor, to the industrial farms, and to the consumer.

In other words, the money they get buys a certain number of hours of fair-market labor. The difference between that figure and the hours they actually work is uncompensated labor.

Don't feel sorry for them, they can go back to Mexico any time they want.

I don't feel sorry for them. I have very little sympathy for the working classes. But I do say that people who dislike illegal immigrants should acknowledge the wealth they are giving to you by not working for a better wage.

Further, it costs much more to the taxpayer than any potential savings. We have to educate them, pay for their health care, prosecute and house them in prisons, pay welfare to them, etc. In the end, the taxpayer loses but companies don't care, they don't have to directly pay the costs of their cheap labor.

But does the taxpayer lose in the end? I suspect you are not counting the value of the uncompensated labor they are providing. The effect on food prices and construction costs is very real. It is not honest to assume that the costs the illegals impose is greater than the benefits they bring.

I've got no problem paying a couple extra cents for a head of lettuce, which is exactly what costs would increase without them.

How do you know the cost would only be 1-2%? What if it were 25-30%? Food and construction are major economic factors. A 5% or 10% increase in costs propagates through the market. You'd be the first conservative to vote for inflation.

DanZ