Illegal Immigration

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Funny. It appears as if the unregulated free market embraced by today's religious right DOES have it's limitations.

When a greedy CEO decides to cut health care benefits for minimum wage workers in order to further engorge his profits, that's perfectly legit. But when a foreign laborer willing to work twice as hard for half the pay gets hired over you, THEN WE HAVE AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!

I'm tired of all the capitalist pigs complaining about losing jobs to Hispanics. This is the form of society you have embraced. Now you get to deal with the competition it entails.




Here's an idea: force companies to pay all workers the same wages, and there is no incentive to hire the immigrant over your average blue collar worker. Problem solved.

Is it really this simple, or am I just missing something?

What is the purpose of the complex naturalization process? I always thought America was the land of opportunity. Suddenly it has become an exclusive membership club. We assert the joys of a free market all over the world, but wish to deny certain groups of people these same rights on the home front.

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

Would this cause any signifigant economic backlashes? The workforce would be no more saturated than it all ready is, right? I'm asking you guys... I'm no economist.



Please share your ideas and solutions.

[1John2_26]

Funny. It appears as if the unregulated free market embraced by today's religious right DOES have it's limitations.

When a greedy CEO decides to cut health care benefits for minimum wage workers in order to further engorge his profits, that's perfectly legit. But when a foreign laborer willing to work twice as hard for half the pay gets hired over you, THEN WE HAVE AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!

I'm tired of all the capitalist pigs complaining about losing jobs to Hispanics. This is the form of society you have embraced. Now you get to deal with the competition it entails.

The following is a responsel in OP/ED style:

Maybe it's the disrespect and racism that the Mexicans have brought to a country that is open to honest people?

Every white American "has roots" that go back to foreign countries. Many Black Americans have joined the American way of life. Maybe the myriaids of peoples that "came here the right way" also, have a bit of a problem with a people group that refuses to respect American laws and America itself. Cinco de Maya is a Mexican victory over France. Why the heck should Americans endure that "celebration."

Mexicans and other latinos (peoples speaking a conquerors language) refuse to offer others what they demand. How many Spanish-only businesses are there now on American soil? Even the African-American community is fed up with Spanish only bunk.

The insanity of leftists chaos has come home to roost in America. Those that wanted a moral society lost to the socialsts. And loss it surely is.

Here's an idea: force companies to pay all workers the same wages, and there is no incentive to hire the immigrant over your average blue collar worker. Problem solved.

Good idea. Then we can do away with the mindwashing colleges creating insane leftist-sociialistic failure.

Is it really this simple, or am I just missing something?

Ask your college professor.

What is the purpose of the complex naturalization process? I always thought America was the land of opportunity. Suddenly it has become an exclusive membership club. We assert the joys of a free market all over the world, but wish to deny certain groups of people these same rights on the home front.

Why not let civl-war decide the winners? I doubt losers from worthless countries will come out on top though.

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

And craete hundreds of new countries on what was America. Graet idea actually. The moralists will rise to the better societies.

Would this cause any signifigant economic backlashes? The workforce would be no more saturated than it all ready is, right? I'm asking you guys... I'm no economist.

It would destroy a bankrupt country once known as the United States of America. Cool.

Please share your ideas and solutions.

And your AK-47 ammo.

[Dilettante]

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

What nation could withstand a totally unregulated, overnight massive influx of immigrants? What would happen to the schools, the hospitals, etc? I don't think anyone is really in favor of an absolutely free market. I don't buy it.

Maybe it's the disrespect and racism that the Mexicans have brought to a country that is open to honest people?

Mexicans did not bring racism to the US. Who said "the only good indian is a dead indian"? Not a Mexican to be sure. I admire the US, but it does have its faults, let's face it.

Cinco de Maya is a Mexican victory over France. Why the heck should Americans endure that "celebration."

You must mean "Cinco de mayo". What's wrong with celebrating a victory over France? Heck, as a Spaniard, I would celebrate it every day.

Mexicans and other latinos (peoples speaking a conquerors language) refuse to offer others what they demand.

What's wrong with speaking a conqueror's language? Isn't that what they do in Texas anyway?
In any case, I know many Mexicans who have also joined the American Way of Life (actually most of the Western world has). America is the new Empire and Bush II is emperor. It's not perfect, but that's the way it is. And in many ways this Empire is trying (successfully or not) to extend civilization--the only civilization that exists nowadays, the one with Greco-Latin and JudeoChristian roots-- to certain corners of the world.
Let's be realistic. I don't have an army capable of conquering the US and without it I will never be able to rule the world my style. If any of you does, please raise your hand.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Maybe it's the disrespect and racism that the Mexicans have brought to a country that is open to honest people?

Yes, because the change-resistant redneck population of the south who regularly spread their biggoted hate of "wetbacks" are certainly not causing this cultural clash.


Those evil little Mexicans. How dare they cross into our sacred realm and attempt to create a better life for themselves and their familys! What do they think this is, America?!?!

Maybe the myriaids of peoples that "came here the right way" also, have a bit of a problem with a people group that refuses to respect American laws and America itself.

"Came here the right way"?

I'm sure you would agree that the Puritans and Quakers who came to America to make a better life for themselves "came here the right way". The poor Englishman trying to take advantage of the King's generous land grants and achieve an enlivened social status "came here the right way" as well, as did the Dutch, French, Irish, and Germans.

But Mexicans- that's crossing the line!

Imagine for a moment that you are latino fellow living in squalor. Across the Rio Grande (or the Caribbean Sea for some folks) is a land "flowing with milk and honey" so to speak, whose lowest paying jobs equal a middle class career in your own God-forsaken nation. If you want to come to the promised land, you have two options:

1. Go to the immigration bureu and attempt to become naturalized. Assuming they don't send you back home to your cardboard box, you are left with the daunting task of enduring YEARS of learning English and history, all while paying extensive tutoring fees and leaving you little time to work for life's essentials. Five years later, you are a fully naturalized citizen of the United States, and if your children have not yet died of starvation, you may now pursue a window washing job and begin building a new life for yourself.

OR

2. Screw the naturalization process and get a job, because Websters dictionaries and elementary school history books do not do much towards getting food on the table.


Surprise surprise, many hard working latinos chose option two, and become what the government considers "criminals".

Don't try to tell me you wouldn't do the same.

Cinco de Maya is a Mexican victory over France. Why the heck should Americans endure that "celebration."

Probably for the same reason why half the people in Asia speak English, and the little kids in Europe are listening to rap music.

Cultures intertwine.

Mexicans and other latinos (peoples speaking a conquerors language) refuse to offer others what they demand. How many Spanish-only businesses are there now on American soil? Even the African-American community is fed up with Spanish only bunk.

Clearly you have not strolled down the streets of Delhi, India any time soon. Microsoft, Texas Instruments, and even Coke Cola have firms there. The street signs are written in both English and the native tongue.

Most nations have multiple languages. Sorry, the US is not so special that it is excluded.

Here's an idea: force companies to pay all workers the same wages, and there is no incentive to hire the immigrant over your average blue collar worker. Problem solved.

Good idea. Then we can do away with the mindwashing colleges creating insane leftist-sociialistic failure.

You know, in that single line of rhetoric I spotted not a SINGLE rational argument against my proposal.

Surely I must have an eyesight infraction. Who would waste their time responding to an argument without offering an alternative solution? Surely not anyone posting on a DEBATE site.

Is it really this simple, or am I just missing something?

Ask your college professor.

No, I'm pretty sure I was asking you...

What is the purpose of the complex naturalization process? I always thought America was the land of opportunity. Suddenly it has become an exclusive membership club. We assert the joys of a free market all over the world, but wish to deny certain groups of people these same rights on the home front.

Why not let civl-war decide the winners? I doubt losers from worthless countries will come out on top though.

Now THERE is a reasonable solution!

I can scarcely believe that I dared to refer to your previous postings as useless rhetoric. My humblest apologies.

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

And craete hundreds of new countries on what was America. Graet idea actually. The moralists will rise to the better societies.

Through your sarcasm, I am catching wind of another brilliant notion. You think that we should surpress differing cultures. Brilliant! Why didn't the founding fathers think of that?

Would this cause any signifigant economic backlashes? The workforce would be no more saturated than it all ready is, right? I'm asking you guys... I'm no economist.

It would destroy a bankrupt country once known as the United States of America. Cool.

Absolutely. There is no need to back up such a statement with evidence or logic. Such a blanket claim may stand on it's own, as established by forum rules #5 and #9.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

What nation could withstand a totally unregulated, overnight massive influx of immigrants? What would happen to the schools, the hospitals, etc? I don't think anyone is really in favor of an absolutely free market. I don't buy it.

What nation could withstand such a massive influx? America, apparently. As far as I know, our economy is still functioning.


Don't you see? We are ALL READY enduring a giant convergance of foriegners. The root problem that all these immigrants pose is that they are not naturalized citizens, and are not bound by standard American labor laws, correct?

My solution is that we loosen the citizenship requirements, consequently encouraging more immigrants to become naturalized. Presto! Companies must pay foriegners the same wages they pay locals, eliminating the incentive to hire illegals over blue collar American workers.

As of yet, no one has really introduced any potential flaws to this system. I'm open to any input, and am willing to change my sentiments accordingly.

[Cephus]

What nation could withstand such a massive influx? America, apparently. As far as I know, our economy is still functioning.

Not very well. Our schools are overcrowded, our medical system is falling apart, our jails are stuffed to the gills with illegals, etc.

My solution is that we loosen the citizenship requirements, consequently encouraging more immigrants to become naturalized. Presto! Companies must pay foriegners the same wages they pay locals, eliminating the incentive to hire illegals over blue collar American workers.

That's fine. Go ahead and get it done. It'll stop the incentives for people to enter the US illegally and at least people will be paying taxes for the services they're using. But what you fail to understand is that most of these people don't want to be US citizens. They have no interest in ever becoming US citizens. They're here for the money, that money all gets shipped south of the border and the overwhelming majority of them, even if they were born here, consider themselves to be Mexican citizens. Of course, a lot of them think California is part of Mexico, so there's not a whole lot you can say for their mental processes.

[1John2_26]

Quote:
Maybe it's the disrespect and racism that the Mexicans have brought to a country that is open to honest people?

Yes, because the change-resistant redneck population of the south who regularly spread their biggoted hate of "wetbacks" are certainly not causing this cultural clash.

So a little ad homishness is OK for you? Resisting the racism of Mexicans that call themselves Mexicans is proper for "Americans" to do. ON AMERICA LAND.

Those evil little Mexicans. How dare they cross into our sacred realm and attempt to create a better life for themselves and their familys! What do they think this is, America?!?!

No, they fly their Mexican Flag and speak Spanish and will not assimilate. Pure racism and worse . . . nationalism. Why celebrate a country that produces nothing but poor people. Is it too much to ask them to become one of us? It is their bigotry that is repulsive not their desire to become Americans which it is clear they are not willing to do.

Quote:
Maybe the myriaids of peoples that "came here the right way" also, have a bit of a problem with a people group that refuses to respect American laws and America itself.

"Came here the right way"?

I'm sure you would agree that the Puritans and Quakers who came to America to make a better life for themselves "came here the right way". The poor Englishman trying to take advantage of the King's generous land grants and achieve an enlivened social status "came here the right way" as well, as did the Dutch, French, Irish, and Germans.

Since the Mayflower, a country has been formed with laws! You missed that part in your Marxism classes.

But Mexicans- that's crossing the line!

Operative word: MEXICAN! Leave if you do not want to be an American in America. That is just politieness.

Imagine for a moment that you are latino fellow living in squalor. Across the Rio Grande (or the Caribbean Sea for some folks) is a land "flowing with milk and honey" so to speak, whose lowest paying jobs equal a middle class career in your own God-forsaken nation. If you want to come to the promised land, you have two options:

1. Go to the immigration bureu and attempt to become naturalized. Assuming they don't send you back home to your cardboard box, you are left with the daunting task of enduring YEARS of learning English and history, all while paying extensive tutoring fees and leaving you little time to work for life's essentials. Five years later, you are a fully naturalized citizen of the United States, and if your children have not yet died of starvation, you may now pursue a window washing job and begin building a new life for yourself.

OR

2. Screw the naturalization process and get a job, because Websters dictionaries and elementary school history books do not do much towards getting food on the table.

Surprise surprise, many hard working latinos chose option two, and become what the government considers "criminals".

Wrong again pal. They use the Constitution "OF AMERICA" to claim the "rights" to be "illegal aliens." That kind of insanity can only come from the mind of the leftist.

Now, "I" would get across the border and take care of my family. THAT is heroic. Speaking a foreign language and refusing to speak English is racism and nationalism. I would expect to be asked to leave from a country I do not want to be a part of.

Don't try to tell me you wouldn't do the same.

I would do the same and be an ILLEGAL alien.

Quote:
Cinco de Maya is a Mexican victory over France. Why the heck should Americans endure that "celebration."

Probably for the same reason why half the people in Asia speak English, and the little kids in Europe are listening to rap music.

Cultures intertwine.

It's racism.

Quote:
Mexicans and other latinos (peoples speaking a conquerors language) refuse to offer others what they demand. How many Spanish-only businesses are there now on American soil? Even the African-American community is fed up with Spanish only bunk.

Clearly you have not strolled down the streets of Delhi, India any time soon. Microsoft, Texas Instruments, and even Coke Cola have firms there. The street signs are written in both English and the native tongue.

Most nations have multiple languages. Sorry, the US is not so special that it is excluded.

My Indian friends speak BOTH languages TO BETTER themselves. The "La Raza" Mexicans are racists, pure and simple.

Quote:
Here's an idea: force companies to pay all workers the same wages, and there is no incentive to hire the immigrant over your average blue collar worker. Problem solved.

Good idea. Then we can do away with the mindwashing colleges creating insane leftist-sociialistic failure.

You know, in that single line of rhetoric I spotted not a SINGLE rational argument against my proposal.

It is the anti-American leftist socialist that has caused the chaos that has enveloped America. Of course. Wherever socialism goes failure follows.

Surely I must have an eyesight infraction. Who would waste their time responding to an argument without offering an alternative solution? Surely not anyone posting on a DEBATE site.

Debate or brain washing? Is it too much to ask "Mexicans" to respect and honor American laws????????? Thye demand that Americans do when we are in Mexico. We cannot even own land in Mexico. The whole thiing stinks.

Quote:
Is it really this simple, or am I just missing something?

Ask your college professor.

No, I'm pretty sure I was asking you...

I know. But can you hear a well-rounded "debate?" It seems that everything must be filtered through Marx.

What is the purpose of the complex naturalization process? I always thought America was the land of opportunity. Suddenly it has become an exclusive membership club. We assert the joys of a free market all over the world, but wish to deny certain groups of people these same rights on the home front.

Why not let civl-war decide the winners? I doubt losers from worthless countries will come out on top though.

Now THERE is a reasonable solution!

I can scarcely believe that I dared to refer to your previous postings as useless rhetoric. My humblest apologies.

If you cannot see civil war on the horizon of America then save your sarcasm for the wounded and dying in the years to come.

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

And craete hundreds of new countries on what was America. Graet idea actually. The moralists will rise to the better societies.

Through your sarcasm, I am catching wind of another brilliant notion. You think that we should surpress differing cultures. Brilliant! Why didn't the founding fathers think of that?

They signed the Declaration of Independence in what language? They envisioned civil war as well. When in the course of human events. The Marxists are assuring that will happen. And, the Americans that want their country back.

Would this cause any signifigant economic backlashes? The workforce would be no more saturated than it all ready is, right? I'm asking you guys... I'm no economist.

It would destroy a bankrupt country once known as the United States of America. Cool.

Absolutely. There is no need to back up such a statement with evidence or logic. Such a blanket claim may stand on it's own, as established by forum rules #5 and #9.

War is a natural consequence of humanity. Marxism through and through. I didn't answer your question with anything but facts.

[juliod]

Aftr considering it for a while, I kind of like the persnickity idea. Grant citizenship to anyone who comes here. Don't get me wrong, I hate hispanics as much as anyone. "Human cockroaches" I called them when I lived in Spanish Harlem.

But this new idea is simple and direct. And it would probably be self-funding.

We could redirect the vast sums we spend on illegal immigration (and which have utterly failed to make a difference) into the services needed to support them. That and the payroll taxes that employers will have to pay.

And I bet it wouldn't even be much of an increase. Our border controls are said to be so porous that I suspect that everyone who wants to come here is already here.

And increases in the funding for schools and hospitals sounds like a good thing. We can easily find the money. Just looking at the DoD (my department) we could cancel the Ballistic Missile Defense, F/A-22, Virginia-class submarine, and the V-22 Osprey programs, which together are budgeted for $19,000,000,000 in FY2007 alone (and about $580 billion over their full lifetimes). Everyone (and I mean everyone) agrees that these are utterly worthless programs.

DanZ

[juliod]

No, they fly their Mexican Flag and speak Spanish and will not assimilate. Pure racism and worse . . . nationalism. Why celebrate a country that produces nothing but poor people. Is it too much to ask them to become one of us? It is their bigotry that is repulsive not their desire to become Americans which it is clear they are not willing to do.

This is definitely the greatest case of "projection" I have every seen.

Racists and nationalists won't generally go to a foreign nation to work, will they?

I you object to people speaking spanish, why do you speak english? English is just as much a foreign language. Does that make you a racist and a nationalist?

The "americans", BTW, were nearly wiped out by a genocidal campaign.

DanZ

[The Persnickety Platypus]

So a little ad homishness is OK for you? Resisting the racism of Mexicans that call themselves Mexicans is proper for "Americans" to do. ON AMERICA LAND.

No, they fly their Mexican Flag and speak Spanish and will not assimilate. Pure racism and worse . . . nationalism. Why celebrate a country that produces nothing but poor people. Is it too much to ask them to become one of us? It is their bigotry that is repulsive not their desire to become Americans which it is clear they are not willing to do.

Operative word: MEXICAN! Leave if you do not want to be an American in America. That is just politieness.

This is just amazing. I don't even know how to respond.


Are there honestly people out there who still wonder why so many foriegners hate America?

What is it about our country that causes it's citizens to be so unbelievably arrogant and domineering?

We DEMAND that everyone assimilate into our culture- even those over seas. The government's deep rooted nationalism asserts it's facets onto foreign markets, and they humbly comply. We singlehandedly control virtually every aspect of the global political spectrum, yet we are still not content.

Diversity is what set this nation's wheels in motion. Now we chastize it, and even threaten to abolish it under code of law.

I believe that these Spanish speaking immigrants contribute more to the betterment of our culture than many people realize. Visit any Latin American country, and you will soon come upon a number of English speaking citizens. As globalization expands, so does our sphere of influence, making it almost impossible for one to resist the intermixing of peoples. Long gone are the days when our closest foriegn contacts were three months across the ocean. Our ties with the many Spanish speaking people the world over are becomming more and more intimate, and I feel that for such relations to succeed, some form of intercultural understanding must permeate our society.

Mr 1John seems to think that America need become a homogeneous mixture of like minded (and same speaking) people, with well defined national borders. However, this is no longer economically possible, much less advisable.

Technology and globalization offer possible methods through which to attain a greater threshold of intercultural understanding, and hopefully a more peaceful world. However, this may never come about if one closes his mind to diversity.

Spanish speaking Mexicans fill an essential niche in our society, and their different customs may be just a taster of the vast global intermingling that is to come.

Now, "I" would get across the border and take care of my family. THAT is heroic. Speaking a foreign language and refusing to speak English is racism and nationalism. I would expect to be asked to leave from a country I do not want to be a part of.

So if you moved to Mexico, you would completely abandon the English language, rip the American flag off of your front porch, and relinquish all memoirs that connect you to your past life?

Of course not, and I can't imagine why the Mexican government would go beyond their means to advise you to. Diversity is healthy.

My Indian friends speak BOTH languages TO BETTER themselves. The "La Raza" Mexicans are racists, pure and simple.

You may not realize it, but India in fact has 415 different languages.

Why so many, you may wonder?

Because there are many different cultures, all banded into a single national aggregate.

Why does the Indian government not ban all languages besides the official language of Hindi?

Because diversity is healthy. What nation demonstrates this better than America, a country founded by THOUSANDS of different people from HUNDREDS of different places?

You don't see American indians, Greeks, Germans, Irish, (ect ect ect) completely abandoning their cultures. Why do you expect the Mexicans to?

Is it too much to ask "Mexicans" to respect and honor American laws?????????

Honor American laws? Most homegrown AMERICANS don't even do that.

Our laws should be more accompanying to foreign people. Respect is a mutual enterprise. Mexicans, as far as I can tell, are getting none. We as Americans need to be more inclusive, and stop condemning what we do not understand.

I know. But can you hear a well-rounded "debate?"

We will never know until you actually begin debating me.

I am always willing to back up my assertions with evidence and reasoning. Am I crossing the lines in expecting YOU to do likewise?

If you cannot see civil war on the horizon of America then save your sarcasm for the wounded and dying in the years to come.

See, this is the kind of statement that requires reason and logic. Any outsider reading this cannot possibly see your perspective from the little information that is given. All we can assume is that you are some sort of disturbed political fanatic spewing baseless conspiracies against the unseen.

Until you ellaborate on your viewpoint, this is what you shall remain in my eyes.

War is a natural consequence of humanity. Marxism through and through. I didn't answer your question with anything but facts.

War is a consequence of allowing Mexicans a right to the libertys Americans enjoy?

Sorry, still not seeing any "facts".

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Just looking at the DoD (my department) we could cancel the Ballistic Missile Defense, F/A-22, Virginia-class submarine, and the V-22 Osprey programs, which together are budgeted for $19,000,000,000 in FY2007 alone (and about $580 billion over their full lifetimes). Everyone (and I mean everyone) agrees that these are utterly worthless programs.

Don't forget the $60,000,000,000 we waste every year maintaining our Cold War nuclear programs.