Political Labels: Up or Down v. Right or Left

[LDS Patriot]

Questions:

1) Would this alternate map of the political landscape make for more productive political dialogue?

2) Using my new political landscape, how would you rate the two major U.S. political parties?

I dont view political parties by the standard labels of "right" or "left", "conservative" or "liberal." These tired, old, wornout terms are loaded with biases, prejudices, preconceptions and baggage, with all good, bad and ugly that implies. Each passing day these labels become less and less meaningful, serving as a pejorative to hurl at ones opposition more than a anything else. So Ive drawn up a different map to reference and created a different compass that I use to navigate the political battlefield and its minefields.

I vision a flagpole on which Old Glory is raised. The flag symbolizes to me the ideals and principles of liberty contained within the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution and the gospel, the ideal balance between government and religion. Thus, I view political parties, platforms, policies, etc., as either moving Up towards the ideal or moving Down away from the ideal.

I apply the idiom "run (something) up the flagpole" to test the idea, measure, party, policy, etc., and create my response or opinion from a principle based standard as opposed to a party line. Using that metaphor I can more easily judge all political matters from a non-partisan vantage point & analysis, and decide whether its moving us either Up the flagpole towards the ideal or Down the flagpole away from the ideal.

Using the 80/20 rule, I believe the Republican party is Up 80% of the time, whereas the Democrat party is Down 80% of the time.

[jcrawford]

Using the 80/20 rule, I believe the Republican party is Up 80% of the time, whereas the Democrat party is Down 80% of the time.

Demos are the party of slavery, abortion, feminism, homosexuality, segregation of Christian morality and state government, labor unions and secular socialism.

They don't even want God in the Pledge of Allegiance.

[micatala]

Welcome to the forum, LDS Patriot. Hope you enjoy our group. You will certainly find a diversity of viewpoints here, so enjoy the fun.


As one of the moderators, I'd recommend the Welcome, posted by the site founder, if you haven't seen this already. You will find some background on the site, a link to the rules, etc.


For the Debate section of the forum, we do ask that each new thread pose a question or questions to debate. The Discussion area is for more general threads.


If you'd like to add a 'question for debate' to this thread, you can edit your Opening Post to include one (after logging in, each post should have an edit button near the top right). It could even be something as simple as 'Would this alternate map of the political landscape make for more productive political dialogue?' or perhaps 'Using my new political landscape, how would you rate the two major U.S. political parties?'


You will find we have quite an international presence, and so you may get comments from outside the U.S. It is certainly fine to focus on 'our' (betraying my home country here) domestic situation, though.



I'll let you add whatever questions or clarifications you wish before joining the fray on this one.

Again, welcome and we will see you around.

[juliod]

I want to write a general reply to the original post, but it's late. In the meanwhile I just have to reply to this:

They don't even want God in the Pledge of Allegiance.

If the NT is true, then god will punish you for idolatry in swearing an oath to an object.

DanZ

[The Persnickety Platypus]

I vision a flagpole on which Old Glory is raised. The flag symbolizes to me the ideals and principles of liberty contained within the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution and the gospel, the ideal balance between government and religion. Thus, I view political parties, platforms, policies, etc., as either moving Up towards the ideal or moving Down away from the ideal.

And what is this ideal? There is no unanimous consensus, hence the disparity between "right" and "left" politics.

"Up" for me would be "down" for jcrawford.

[LDS Patriot]

I vision a flagpole on which Old Glory is raised. The flag symbolizes to me the ideals and principles of liberty contained within the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution and the gospel, the ideal balance between government and religion. Thus, I view political parties, platforms, policies, etc., as either moving Up towards the ideal or moving Down away from the ideal.

And what is this ideal? There is no unanimous consensus, hence the disparity between "right" and "left" politics.

"Up" for me would be "down" for jcrawford.

I see your point, which is why I offer the founding documents as the standard of which to base our decisions upon. I think there is enough data to arrive at a reasonble conclusion as to what the founding fathers original intent was. For example, the Federalist Papers as well as the anti-Federalist Papers server as excellent commentary of original intent.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed.htm

[1John2_26]

Replace "right and left' and/or "liberal and conservative" with evil and goodness.

The Democrats comeout far more evil than the Republicans. Democrats have become many of the things jcrawford said they are and he didn't mention their zeal for socialism, with evolution to debauchery-haven.

The GOP needs to be watched as they favor those that have money over the whining masses of inner-city welfarites that want to take from the good and keep taking (from the good).

Paul indicated that it would be better to be wronged by evil-doers, but at the same time used the political spectrum to get his message across.

I prefer "evil versus good" now. Especially since the Democrats and garden-variety leftist no longer hide their contempt for decent and good people.

Look at Venezuelan leftists, it's OK for cocaine farmers to sicken people as long as the poor can get a chicken in every pot at the end of the day.

Sounds very Democrat and liberal to me.

Evil.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

I see your point, which is why I offer the founding documents as the standard of which to base our decisions upon. I think there is enough data to arrive at a reasonble conclusion as to what the founding fathers original intent was. For example, the Federalist Papers as well as the anti-Federalist Papers server as excellent commentary of original intent.

The founding fathers themselves were divided. How are we to glean a central message from all of this? Do we use Hamilton's standard, or Jeffersons?


But on a different note, how big a role should the father's opinions really play in current affairs? Times and situations change, and the constitution is not always able to adapt. I doubt that things like the threat of nuclear poliferation or the outsourcing of business were issues in colonial times. Most of our nations founders supported slavery. Should we adhere to this standard? Many past laws have proven themselves insufficient for modern eras. Understanding past principles is important, but even more important is being able to distinquish when it is necissary to alter or deviate from such criterion. This is why the framers of the constitution instituted the ammendment process.

[bernee51]

Replace "right and left' and/or "liberal and conservative" with evil and goodness.

That only works if your version of evil and good is accepted (or even acceptable)

The Democrats comeout far more evil than the Republicans.

Democrats would say the exact opposite.

Why are you right? Because you say so?

The GOP needs to be watched as they favor those that have money

and ensure they get more money.

...over the whining masses of inner-city welfarites that want to take from the good and keep taking (from the good).

Ayn Rand would be proud of you.

... it's OK for cocaine farmers to sicken people as long as the poor can get a chicken in every pot at the end of the day.

That is only because cocaine is illegal. If it weren't there would be no profit in it.

The 'war on drugs' has created more casualties than would otherwise have existed. Why are the US prisons overflowing? Why does the US have the highest incarceration rate in the world? The 'war on drugs'.

[1John2_26]

It may be a good place to find an accurate definition of "evil" to think that drug addiction is a "good" thing. Whether legal or illegal, drugs are bad.

1John2_26 wrote:

... it's OK for cocaine farmers to sicken people as long as the poor can get a chicken in every pot at the end of the day.

That is only because cocaine is illegal. If it weren't there would be no profit in it.

It still remains a very addictive and bad drug. Stringing out people on legal coke would still be a bad thing. Cocaine was legal once in the USA.

The 'war on drugs' has created more casualties than would otherwise have existed. Why are the US prisons overflowing? Why does the US have the highest incarceration rate in the world? The 'war on drugs'.

Drugged out crazies commit many violent crimes. They also violate the civil rights of others to live in peace.

How many people die from alcohol "related' incidents?

Bad versus good is not that hard to define.