Christian Forums ...Why?

[KCKID]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

[TheTruth101]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

Well,

1. Homesexuality is mentioned in the Bible as an act of unjustly behavior. Sodom and Gommorah etc.

Um, supporting scripture or a retraction of statement ...?

When are folks going to catch on that homosexuality (as an act of unjustly behavior ...whatever that might mean) is mentioned NOWHERE in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah ...!

2. Homosexuality is pure "lust" because within the Bible, it states sexual activities are done ONLY to bore.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'bore' part but I've often wondered myself if sex was given only for the means to procreate. I mean, God hardly comes across as a barrel of laughs so He may well not approve of recreational sex, i.e. sex for the mere pleasure of sex. Therefore, what would this mean . . .hmmm?

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

[KCKID]

It's a simple thing to do.....Use the bible to promote gay marriage. And shut up every religious person on the face of the earth. Well most religious.
Pretty simple. Right?

At least one gay marriage in the bible. 6000 years of history and not one mention of gay marriage being a normal thing? I don't get it.

Yes, it is considered sin. That is why, chastitiy.

Christians shouldnt have sex before marriage in the first place. That is what is told in the Bible.

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Sorry, they do have a point according to the holy scriptures.

The challenge was not to find any evidence or passage in the Bible that shows an anti gay message. Clearly there are some as evidenced by the scripture you’ve provided. In fact the Old Testament can be mined to show that God is against practically everything including walking too fast on Sundays and not treating your slave well enough.

The challenge you have both dodged is specifically to show Jesus Christ, (he who you can’t spell Christianity without), spouting an anti gay message using scripture from the New Testament.

Why do you propose Christians belive in the NT only? (members on that forum and here as well)

The reaosn for Christ getting crucified is to GET TO THE FATHER.

I certainly do not propose that Christians should believe only in the NT. I would point out two things though;

First, you have once again failed to show Jesus saying it ain’t ok to be gay.

Second, you’re cherry picking the OT. If we’re going to be anti gay and ignore the love thy neighbour message of Jesus because the OT says that gays are bad, then we should also be stoning people who run on Sundays.

Are you able to show via scripture in the NT, Jesus saying being gay is wrong?

Why would you look towards the NT for judgement calls in the first place? Jesus clearly said he did't come to judge but to wipe the sin of mankind.

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

If the issues here are of judgement (homosexuality in this case) then you shuoldnt look towards the NT but of OT instead.

If the OP calls for scriptures in the NT for this issue, its an invalid presupposition to begin with. You shold kind of see why he is getting warned in that forum now.

Truth ...a statement presented as fact was made that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage reprehensible. Why should I receive a warning (not that I have received a warning thus far, simply hostility from religious bigots) for asking the OP to either present the scripture where Jesus claims that homosexuality/gay marriage is reprehensible or otherwise withdraw the statement?

[TheTruth101]

It's a simple thing to do.....Use the bible to promote gay marriage. And shut up every religious person on the face of the earth. Well most religious.
Pretty simple. Right?

At least one gay marriage in the bible. 6000 years of history and not one mention of gay marriage being a normal thing? I don't get it.

Yes, it is considered sin. That is why, chastitiy.

Christians shouldnt have sex before marriage in the first place. That is what is told in the Bible.

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Sorry, they do have a point according to the holy scriptures.

The challenge was not to find any evidence or passage in the Bible that shows an anti gay message. Clearly there are some as evidenced by the scripture you’ve provided. In fact the Old Testament can be mined to show that God is against practically everything including walking too fast on Sundays and not treating your slave well enough.

The challenge you have both dodged is specifically to show Jesus Christ, (he who you can’t spell Christianity without), spouting an anti gay message using scripture from the New Testament.

Why do you propose Christians belive in the NT only? (members on that forum and here as well)

The reaosn for Christ getting crucified is to GET TO THE FATHER.

I certainly do not propose that Christians should believe only in the NT. I would point out two things though;

First, you have once again failed to show Jesus saying it ain’t ok to be gay.

Second, you’re cherry picking the OT. If we’re going to be anti gay and ignore the love thy neighbour message of Jesus because the OT says that gays are bad, then we should also be stoning people who run on Sundays.

Are you able to show via scripture in the NT, Jesus saying being gay is wrong?

Why would you look towards the NT for judgement calls in the first place? Jesus clearly said he did't come to judge but to wipe the sin of mankind.

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

If the issues here are of judgement (homosexuality in this case) then you shuoldnt look towards the NT but of OT instead.

If the OP calls for scriptures in the NT for this issue, its an invalid presupposition to begin with. You shold kind of see why he is getting warned in that forum now.

Truth ...a statement presented as fact was made that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage reprehensible. Why should I receive a warning (not that I have received a warning thus far, simply hostility from religious bigots) for asking the OP to either present the scripture where Jesus claims that homosexuality/gay marriage is reprehensible or otherwise withdraw the statement?

You should post exactly whats said here and tell them that their statements have been lost in between the mix. Jesus didnt come to judge (as evident by scripture) that when they speak about homosexuality along the OT, it makes sense,however when preached (judgement of homosexuals) along the lines of Jesus and the NT, its going against the whoe point of Jesus and is thus, a logical fallacy.

[KCKID]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

Well,

1. Homesexuality is mentioned in the Bible as an act of unjustly behavior. Sodom and Gommorah etc.

Um, supporting scripture or a retraction of statement ...?

When are folks going to catch on that homosexuality (as an act of unjustly behavior ...whatever that might mean) is mentioned NOWHERE in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah ...!

2. Homosexuality is pure "lust" because within the Bible, it states sexual activities are done ONLY to bore.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'bore' part but I've often wondered myself if sex was given only for the means to procreate. I mean, God hardly comes across as a barrel of laughs so He may well not approve of recreational sex, i.e. sex for the mere pleasure of sex. Therefore, what would this mean . . .hmmm?

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

While that passage doesn't appear to support what you say about sex being a bore and only for procreation I WOULD like to nail you down here and ask that you explain precisely WHAT the passage means and precisely for WHOM it was intended. Was it intended for the Levite priests as a part of their holiness code? Was it intended for those who were worshipping false gods such as Molech and participating in fertlility rituals and the like? Was it intended for the few local 'gays' in the tribe who were intimate in private? Who?

[TheTruth101]

It's a simple thing to do.....Use the bible to promote gay marriage. And shut up every religious person on the face of the earth. Well most religious.
Pretty simple. Right?

At least one gay marriage in the bible. 6000 years of history and not one mention of gay marriage being a normal thing? I don't get it.

Yes, it is considered sin. That is why, chastitiy.

Christians shouldnt have sex before marriage in the first place. That is what is told in the Bible.

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Sorry, they do have a point according to the holy scriptures.

The challenge was not to find any evidence or passage in the Bible that shows an anti gay message. Clearly there are some as evidenced by the scripture you’ve provided. In fact the Old Testament can be mined to show that God is against practically everything including walking too fast on Sundays and not treating your slave well enough.

The challenge you have both dodged is specifically to show Jesus Christ, (he who you can’t spell Christianity without), spouting an anti gay message using scripture from the New Testament.

Why do you propose Christians belive in the NT only? (members on that forum and here as well)

The reaosn for Christ getting crucified is to GET TO THE FATHER.

I certainly do not propose that Christians should believe only in the NT. I would point out two things though;

First, you have once again failed to show Jesus saying it ain’t ok to be gay.

Second, you’re cherry picking the OT. If we’re going to be anti gay and ignore the love thy neighbour message of Jesus because the OT says that gays are bad, then we should also be stoning people who run on Sundays.

Are you able to show via scripture in the NT, Jesus saying being gay is wrong?

Why would you look towards the NT for judgement calls in the first place? Jesus clearly said he did't come to judge but to wipe the sin of mankind.

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

If the issues here are of judgement (homosexuality in this case) then you shuoldnt look towards the NT but of OT instead.

If the OP calls for scriptures in the NT for this issue, its an invalid presupposition to begin with. You shold kind of see why he is getting warned in that forum now.

Truth ...a statement presented as fact was made that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage reprehensible. Why should I receive a warning (not that I have received a warning thus far, simply hostility from religious bigots) for asking the OP to either present the scripture where Jesus claims that homosexuality/gay marriage is reprehensible or otherwise withdraw the statement?

You should post exactly whats said here and tell them that their statements have been lost in between the mix. Jesus didnt come to judge (as evident by scripture) that when they speak about homosexuality along the OT, it makes sense,however when preached (judgement of homosexuals) along the lines of Jesus and the NT, its going against the whoe point of Jesus and is thus, a logical fallacy.

[TheTruth101]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

Well,

1. Homesexuality is mentioned in the Bible as an act of unjustly behavior. Sodom and Gommorah etc.

Um, supporting scripture or a retraction of statement ...?

When are folks going to catch on that homosexuality (as an act of unjustly behavior ...whatever that might mean) is mentioned NOWHERE in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah ...!

2. Homosexuality is pure "lust" because within the Bible, it states sexual activities are done ONLY to bore.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'bore' part but I've often wondered myself if sex was given only for the means to procreate. I mean, God hardly comes across as a barrel of laughs so He may well not approve of recreational sex, i.e. sex for the mere pleasure of sex. Therefore, what would this mean . . .hmmm?

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

While that passage doesn't appear to support what you say about sex being a bore and only for procreation I WOULD like to nail you down here and ask that you explain precisely WHAT the passage means and precisely for WHOM it was intended. Was it intended for the Levite priests as a part of their holiness code? Was it intended for those who were worshipping false gods such as Molech and participating in fertlility rituals and the like? Was it intended for the few local 'gays' in the tribe who were intimate in private? Who?

It was intended for the followers of Moses. The tribes of Israel.

[KCKID]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

Well,

1. Homesexuality is mentioned in the Bible as an act of unjustly behavior. Sodom and Gommorah etc.

Um, supporting scripture or a retraction of statement ...?

When are folks going to catch on that homosexuality (as an act of unjustly behavior ...whatever that might mean) is mentioned NOWHERE in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah ...!

2. Homosexuality is pure "lust" because within the Bible, it states sexual activities are done ONLY to bore.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'bore' part but I've often wondered myself if sex was given only for the means to procreate. I mean, God hardly comes across as a barrel of laughs so He may well not approve of recreational sex, i.e. sex for the mere pleasure of sex. Therefore, what would this mean . . .hmmm?

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

While that passage doesn't appear to support what you say about sex being a bore and only for procreation I WOULD like to nail you down here and ask that you explain precisely WHAT the passage means and precisely for WHOM it was intended. Was it intended for the Levite priests as a part of their holiness code? Was it intended for those who were worshipping false gods such as Molech and participating in fertlility rituals and the like? Was it intended for the few local 'gays' in the tribe who were intimate in private? Who?

It was intended for the followers of Moses. The tribes of Israel.

So, you're fine with admitting that the Leviticus text isn't and never was for we in the 21st Century?

[playhavock]

Because admiting you are wrong is something that people who are racest or biasist can not do. It matters not if Jesus was writen as saying anything about homosexuality at all to me since he is not a person I turn to for moral attudes, anyone who excludes people for sexuality is not a moral person.

I'm glad you are standing up for it in the way you can. It is sad that it falls on deaf ears.

[Morphine]

Well,

1. Homesexuality is mentioned in the Bible as an act of unjustly behavior. Sodom and Gommorah etc.

2. Homosexuality is pure "lust" because within the Bible, it states sexual activities are done ONLY to bore.

Well doesn't that mean everyone who has sex without the intent to have children are committing, sin? Even married couples...

I saw that you said the verse about homosexuality is the followers of Moses. How did you come to that conclusion? I'm not trying to imply you're wrong or anything. I just really want to know. I've come across a few posts were people say it was meant for a specific group of people.

[charles_hamm]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

If I understand you correctly your position is that Jesus does not condemn homosexuality because he never directly says it's a sin (immoral, reprehensible, whatever adjective you want to use here). I'll address the post this way and if I am wrong about your position please let me know.

Genesis 2:24

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
Establishes that marriage is between a man and a woman.

Leviticus 18:22
22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
Establishes the Law on homosexuality.

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Reiterates the law and establishes the penalty for homosexuality.

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus states the Law has not been abolished and will apply until Heaven and Earth disappear. He fulfills the Law by teaching its fullest meaning to the Apostles and calling on them to keep the Law even better than the Pharisees, obeying the Law which qualified him to become the sin offering, and upon our acceptance of him as our savior gives us his righteousness which gives us perfect obedience of the Law. This is shown in Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Mark 7:20-23
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.�
Jesus condemns sexual immorality.

Matthew 23:2-3
2 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Jesus tells the crowd and disciples to obey the teachers of the Law.

I freely admit no ONE verse addresses homosexuality directly. Taken together, however, they show Jesus' position on it by showing that he lived under the Law, taught his disciples and all who listened to him to obey the Law and he fulfilled the Law by perfectly obeying it. They also show that Jesus condemns sexual immorality. Homosexuality is called an abomination under the Law. Also as a Christian I believe in the Holy Trinity so it can even be said that the Law was given by God the Son (Jesus) as well as by God the Father.