Is peace in the Middle East Possible?
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youngborean
- Sage
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:28 pm
Is peace in the Middle East Possible?
Post #1I believe the Middle East is at a unique point in its history. After 50 years of the existence of Nation States in the area, coupled with 50 years of fighting over borders there seems to be an attitude growing that peace is possible at this juncture. I will offer up pluralism as the my for peace in the middle East. So I will phrase the question like this. With the strong divide between religious and political ideals that have developed in the Middle East, is a tolerant atmosphere that promotes pluralism possible at this point? And as a side question, why does this issue raise such concern for people around the world?
Post #11
NO.
Peace is not possible in the Middle East. Especially with pluralism present, while heads are buried spiritually, metaphorically and literally in the sand.
Peaceful people have no business being invloved with any form of politics or religion in the middle east. Let violence take its course in a violent world willingly embraced. When peaceful people are out of the picture, and helped out of the picture, the festering wounds of those that dwell there will let nature take its course.
Also, there is no reason the countries of the West should not build alternate sources of energy and leave the Middle East to what awaits it. Looking at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia as another example, these people want to live within a violent and oppressive world. Let us make sure that it only exists in the Middle East.
If there comes a day when this region wants to embrace sanity, morality and peace, then negotiations with the survivors of this part of the world can begin in earnest.
Peace is not possible in the Middle East. Especially with pluralism present, while heads are buried spiritually, metaphorically and literally in the sand.
Peaceful people have no business being invloved with any form of politics or religion in the middle east. Let violence take its course in a violent world willingly embraced. When peaceful people are out of the picture, and helped out of the picture, the festering wounds of those that dwell there will let nature take its course.
Also, there is no reason the countries of the West should not build alternate sources of energy and leave the Middle East to what awaits it. Looking at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia as another example, these people want to live within a violent and oppressive world. Let us make sure that it only exists in the Middle East.
If there comes a day when this region wants to embrace sanity, morality and peace, then negotiations with the survivors of this part of the world can begin in earnest.
Post #12
1John2_26,
Is pluralism not present in the U.S., indeed the whole of "the West?" Internal struggles, battles and wars have been, are, and will always be fought within nations. You speek of the West as peaceful, non-violent; this simply isn't true. How can you speak of the peace and sanity of a nation which invades another country unwarrented? I know it helps those in the west, esp. those of us in the U.S. to veil our attack on another nation as justified because we're "spreading democracy" and overthrowing a dictator (which we helped come to power in the fist place); but the underlying truth here is that the west is just as violent. The small minority of people's in the middle east which choose terror tactics are by no means a measure of how the majority wants to live (refer to "Looking at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia as another example, these people want to live within a violent and oppressive world.")
Further, the notion of ensuring that violence and oppression only exists in the ME only turns a blind eye to the violence and oppression which permeates western culture. Just because we hide domestic struggle in the U.S. with our "War on Terror!" doesn't mean that we, as ambassadors of peace
are peaceful, sane, peoples- though it's a wonderful dellusion.
Is pluralism not present in the U.S., indeed the whole of "the West?" Internal struggles, battles and wars have been, are, and will always be fought within nations. You speek of the West as peaceful, non-violent; this simply isn't true. How can you speak of the peace and sanity of a nation which invades another country unwarrented? I know it helps those in the west, esp. those of us in the U.S. to veil our attack on another nation as justified because we're "spreading democracy" and overthrowing a dictator (which we helped come to power in the fist place); but the underlying truth here is that the west is just as violent. The small minority of people's in the middle east which choose terror tactics are by no means a measure of how the majority wants to live (refer to "Looking at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia as another example, these people want to live within a violent and oppressive world.")
Further, the notion of ensuring that violence and oppression only exists in the ME only turns a blind eye to the violence and oppression which permeates western culture. Just because we hide domestic struggle in the U.S. with our "War on Terror!" doesn't mean that we, as ambassadors of peace
are peaceful, sane, peoples- though it's a wonderful dellusion.That's probably the exact same thing they say about us... yes, we who survive the onslaught of radical ideologies, intolerance, greed and ourselves here in the west, may live long enough to take a step down from our self regarded pedestool.If there comes a day when this region wants to embrace sanity, morality and peace, then negotiations with the survivors of this part of the world can begin in earnest
Men at ease have contempt for misfortune
as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
Post #13
1John2_26,
Is pluralism not present in the U.S., indeed the whole of "the West?" Internal struggles, battles and wars have been, are, and will always be fought within nations. You speak of the West as peaceful, non-violent; this simply isn't true. How can you speak of the peace and sanity of a nation which invades another country unwarranted? I know it helps those in the west, esp. those of us in the U.S. to veil our attack on another nation as justified because we're "spreading democracy" and overthrowing a dictator (which we helped come to power in the fist place); but the underlying truth here is that the west is just as violent. The small minority of people's in the middle east which choose terror tactics are by no means a measure of how the majority wants to live (refer to "Looking at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia as another example, these people want to live within a violent and oppressive world.")
Further, the notion of ensuring that violence and oppression only exists in the ME only turns a blind eye to the violence and oppression which permeates western culture. Just because we hide domestic struggle in the U.S. with our "War on Terror!" doesn't mean that we, as ambassadors of peace are peaceful, sane, peoples- though it's a wonderful delusion.
Quote:
If there comes a day when this region wants to embrace sanity, morality and peace, then negotiations with the survivors of this part of the world can begin in earnest
That's probably the exact same thing they say about us... yes, we who survive the onslaught of radical ideologies, intolerance, greed and ourselves here in the west, may live long enough to take a step down from our self regarded pedestal.
Is pluralism not present in the U.S., indeed the whole of "the West?" Internal struggles, battles and wars have been, are, and will always be fought within nations. You speak of the West as peaceful, non-violent; this simply isn't true. How can you speak of the peace and sanity of a nation which invades another country unwarranted? I know it helps those in the west, esp. those of us in the U.S. to veil our attack on another nation as justified because we're "spreading democracy" and overthrowing a dictator (which we helped come to power in the fist place); but the underlying truth here is that the west is just as violent. The small minority of people's in the middle east which choose terror tactics are by no means a measure of how the majority wants to live (refer to "Looking at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia as another example, these people want to live within a violent and oppressive world.")
Further, the notion of ensuring that violence and oppression only exists in the ME only turns a blind eye to the violence and oppression which permeates western culture. Just because we hide domestic struggle in the U.S. with our "War on Terror!" doesn't mean that we, as ambassadors of peace are peaceful, sane, peoples- though it's a wonderful delusion.
Quote:
If there comes a day when this region wants to embrace sanity, morality and peace, then negotiations with the survivors of this part of the world can begin in earnest
That's probably the exact same thing they say about us... yes, we who survive the onslaught of radical ideologies, intolerance, greed and ourselves here in the west, may live long enough to take a step down from our self regarded pedestal.
Men at ease have contempt for misfortune
as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
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juliod
- Guru
- Posts: 1882
- Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:04 pm
- Location: Washington DC
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Post #14
I agree. It all hinges on the fate of the millions of displaced Palestinians. No peace will be possible until this issue is dealt with. That means either kill all the Palestinians, or else make some serious concessions to replace what they have lost.i can say that they all root back to the palestinian-israeli land issue.
I think that the conservative Israelis, and those in the US who automatically support them, think that they will be able to "win" the conflict by some process that they have not yet discovered.
DanZ
Post #15
Really? How many innocent people are beheaded by anyone in western countries. Your comparison is not sound. The west is so much better than any Islamic country, please sir.1John2_26,
Is pluralism not present in the U.S., indeed the whole of "the West?"
Internal struggles, battles and wars have been, are, and will always be fought within nations. You speak of the West as peaceful, non-violent; this simply isn't true.
Please point me to the Jihad mills and brainwashing schools for suicide bombers dying for the Constitutions of either Europe or the US? Silly comparing the west and the Islamic world.How can you speak of the peace and sanity of a nation which invades another country unwarranted? I know it helps those in the west, esp. those of us in the U.S. to veil our attack on another nation as justified because we're "spreading democracy" and overthrowing a dictator (which we helped come to power in the fist place); but the underlying truth here is that the west is just as violent.
None of these countries ever refer to themselves without the collective Islamic world view. Which is one of pure violence and subjugation of non-belivers. That's just a fact.The small minority of people's in the middle east which choose terror tactics are by no means a measure of how the majority wants to live (refer to "Looking at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia as another example, these people want to live within a violent and oppressive world.")
Leave gangst's and thugs out of this. And besides Crips and Bloods don't behead tourists!!!!Further, the notion of ensuring that violence and oppression only exists in the ME only turns a blind eye to the violence and oppression which permeates western culture.
Just because we hide domestic struggle in the U.S. with our "War on Terror!" doesn't mean that we, as ambassadors of peace are peaceful, sane, peoples- though it's a wonderful delusion.
Delusion is a good word. I'm glad you mentioned it first. Thinking there is any comparison to an Islamic mind and a mind that believes in diversity is rooted in delusion.
Submit or die is what "they" say about "us." Radical ideologies, intolerance and greed are words that define the Middle East countries perfectly. The pedestal in the west seems very clearly where everyone from oppresive and worthless countries RUN TO! There is a reason for that. The answer that discounts the perspective you attempted.Quote:
If there comes a day when this region wants to embrace sanity, morality and peace, then negotiations with the survivors of this part of the world can begin in earnest
That's probably the exact same thing they say about us... yes, we who survive the onslaught of radical ideologies, intolerance, greed and ourselves here in the west, may live long enough to take a step down from our self regarded pedestal.
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a.elhusseini
- Student
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:37 am
- Location: Columbus,Oh
Post #16
you've just proved one pt i have always had doubts about. you represent that ignorant part of western society that believes they're better than everybody.i.e U.S government. from what you said i get the impression that you think we're nothing but stupid suicidal camel traders..
1John2_26 said
Really? How many innocent people are beheaded by anyone in western countries. Your comparison is not sound. The west is so much better than any Islamic country, please sir.
innocent ppl ARE NOT beheaded. the ppl who are beheaded are the ones who have commited adultery and other serious sins. moreover 3 ppl should witness against that sinner for any beheading etc to take place. and by the way beheading is the best way to ensure death and is by far better than the other methods (electric chair, lethal mediciation) because it gives the least torture.
1John2_26 said
Please point me to the Jihad mills and brainwashing schools for suicide bombers dying for the Constitutions of either Europe or the US? Silly comparing the west and the Islamic world.
plz study history and the different methods of occupation and war resistance before talking giberish
1John2_26 said
None of these countries ever refer to themselves without the collective Islamic world view. Which is one of pure violence and subjugation of non-belivers. That's just a fact.
now ur claiming that islam means war. wat u hear on ur jewish news networks is nothing but b.s . i suggest u listen to both sides and then u could clearly see that the palestinians have every right to do wat theyre currently doing.
1John2_26 said
Leave gangst's and thugs out of this. And besides Crips and Bloods don't behead tourists!!!!
maybe thats because ur not living in a war zone !!
1John2_26 said
Delusion is a good word. I'm glad you mentioned it first. Thinking there is any comparison to an Islamic mind and a mind that believes in diversity is rooted in delusion.
now ur linking islam to narrow-mindedness..my friend, u r as racist as
president bush the jack-ass.
1John2_26 said
Submit or die is what "they" say about "us." Radical ideologies, intolerance and greed are words that define the Middle East countries perfectly. The pedestal in the west seems very clearly where everyone from oppresive and worthless countries RUN TO! There is a reason for that. The answer that discounts the perspective you attempted.
"you're either with us, or against us" this defines the united states policy. the United States's primary target is anyone who opposes wat they say. the "spreading democracy" they talk about it is world domination by establishing allies by FORCE all across the world. They're butting in everybody's business.
1John2_26 said
Really? How many innocent people are beheaded by anyone in western countries. Your comparison is not sound. The west is so much better than any Islamic country, please sir.
innocent ppl ARE NOT beheaded. the ppl who are beheaded are the ones who have commited adultery and other serious sins. moreover 3 ppl should witness against that sinner for any beheading etc to take place. and by the way beheading is the best way to ensure death and is by far better than the other methods (electric chair, lethal mediciation) because it gives the least torture.
1John2_26 said
Please point me to the Jihad mills and brainwashing schools for suicide bombers dying for the Constitutions of either Europe or the US? Silly comparing the west and the Islamic world.
plz study history and the different methods of occupation and war resistance before talking giberish
1John2_26 said
None of these countries ever refer to themselves without the collective Islamic world view. Which is one of pure violence and subjugation of non-belivers. That's just a fact.
now ur claiming that islam means war. wat u hear on ur jewish news networks is nothing but b.s . i suggest u listen to both sides and then u could clearly see that the palestinians have every right to do wat theyre currently doing.
1John2_26 said
Leave gangst's and thugs out of this. And besides Crips and Bloods don't behead tourists!!!!
maybe thats because ur not living in a war zone !!
1John2_26 said
Delusion is a good word. I'm glad you mentioned it first. Thinking there is any comparison to an Islamic mind and a mind that believes in diversity is rooted in delusion.
now ur linking islam to narrow-mindedness..my friend, u r as racist as
president bush the jack-ass.
1John2_26 said
Submit or die is what "they" say about "us." Radical ideologies, intolerance and greed are words that define the Middle East countries perfectly. The pedestal in the west seems very clearly where everyone from oppresive and worthless countries RUN TO! There is a reason for that. The answer that discounts the perspective you attempted.
"you're either with us, or against us" this defines the united states policy. the United States's primary target is anyone who opposes wat they say. the "spreading democracy" they talk about it is world domination by establishing allies by FORCE all across the world. They're butting in everybody's business.
Post #17
How many people (not terrorists and Jihad warriors) rush to emigrate to Islaimic Sharia controlled countries? How many Nigerians have run for their lives out of Nigeria, from Islamic jihad warfare? Spain and Europe are flooded with "Muslims" leaving Islamic run countries to live under infidel-ruled countries. Why? To be "blessed" with the abilty to survive and thrive.you've just proved one pt i have always had doubts about. you represent that ignorant part of western society that believes they're better than everybody.i.e U.S government. from what you said i get the impression that you think we're nothing but stupid suicidal camel traders..
1John2_26 said
Really? How many innocent people are beheaded by anyone in western countries. Your comparison is not sound. The west is so much better than any Islamic country, please sir. ish lives in the middle east? People joining the Taliban to enslave women and kill non-taliban people. But, how about: How many people (from non-Islamic countries are rushing to emigrate to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian Israel etc., etc..
Three witnesses in a back room is not justice. There has been many internet videos of this form of justice and the world has spoken its opinion. In fact not many people seem happy about Islamic justice. Tourists should never be beheahed. It's incredible that this point needs to be brought up in a civilized debate forum.innocent ppl ARE NOT beheaded. the ppl who are beheaded are the ones who have commited adultery and other serious sins. moreover 3 ppl should witness against that sinner for any beheading etc to take place. and by the way beheading is the best way to ensure death and is by far better than the other methods (electric chair, lethal mediciation) because it gives the least torture.
1John2_26 said
Please point me to the Jihad mills and brainwashing schools for suicide bombers dying for the Constitutions of either Europe or the US? Silly comparing the west and the Islamic world.
plz study history and the different methods of occupation and war resistance before talking giberish
Occupation and war IS the history of Islam. But please, compare an army of uniformed soldiers to hi-jackers and suicide bombers and jihad terrorists. BIG difference.
1John2_26 said
None of these countries ever refer to themselves without the collective Islamic world view. Which is one of pure violence and subjugation of non-belivers. That's just a fact.
now ur claiming that islam means war. wat u hear on ur jewish news networks is nothing but b.s . i suggest u listen to both sides and then u could clearly see that the palestinians have every right to do wat theyre currently doing.
Mecca is not a jewish town. It was not a political victory for Mohammad. It was won with the sword. Jihad means what we all know it means. War.
1John2_26 said
Leave gangst's and thugs out of this. And besides Crips and Bloods don't behead tourists!!!!
maybe thats because ur not living in a war zone !!
Not one suicide ganster bomber though, dying for a god by killing innocent people.
1John2_26 said
Delusion is a good word. I'm glad you mentioned it first. Thinking there is any comparison to an Islamic mind and a mind that believes in diversity is rooted in delusion.
now ur linking islam to narrow-mindedness..my friend, u r as racist as
president bush the jack-ass.
Calling Islam a race just proved my point.
The Koran says not to make friends of Christians and Jews because they are a friends of each other. And then gives a warning to Muslim's if they do.1John2_26 said
Submit or die is what "they" say about "us." Radical ideologies, intolerance and greed are words that define the Middle East countries perfectly. The pedestal in the west seems very clearly where everyone from oppresive and worthless countries RUN TO! There is a reason for that. The answer that discounts the perspective you attempted.
"you're either with us, or against us" this defines the united states policy. the United States's primary target is anyone who opposes wat they say. the "spreading democracy" they talk about it is world domination by establishing allies by FORCE all across the world. They're butting in everybody's business.
"Love your enemies . . ."
What happened to Germany and Japan after America literally smashed them to bits after World War Two?
They are not practicing, the religion of their conquerors huh? Nor are they forced to do anything anymore. Germany is a perfect example of the west versus Islamic rule.
Islam means submission. And history has shown that it means what it says.
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a.elhusseini
- Student
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:37 am
- Location: Columbus,Oh
Post #18
1John2_26 said
How many people (not terrorists and Jihad warriors) rush to emigrate to Islaimic Sharia controlled countries? How many Nigerians have run for their lives out of Nigeria, from Islamic jihad warfare? Spain and Europe are flooded with "Muslims" leaving Islamic run countries to live under infidel-ruled countries. Why? To be "blessed" with the abilty to survive and thrive.
Now ur saying that jihad and terrorists are the same thing. For ur information A LOT of ppl are immigrating to Islamic countries, esp Saudi Arabia becz it has two blessed cities of Mecca and Madinah, the difference is Saudi Arabia isnt bragging about how much ppl move in! If u dont understand the meaning of jihad, then i suggest u take ur trash talk elsewhere read more about jihad here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad. All the muslims immigrating to Spain, Europe and U.S.A are only doing so so that they could improve their work positions and try to climb up the social ladder to calm things around the middle east. Regarding Nigeria i dont know anything about that but i can say ur wrong no matter wat becz from wat ive heard so far, u have no clue wat ur talking about !!
1John2_26 said
People joining the Taliban to enslave women and kill non-taliban people. But, how about: How many people (from non-Islamic countries are rushing to emigrate to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian Israel etc., etc..
Women behind the veil being beaten up by her husband in Afghanistan. I remember seeing that on Cbs and Cnn. Funny how i dont compare u to the fundamentalist KKK. maybe its becz i know better that making false immature judgements, but hey seems u lack intelligence wen u say veiled women equal slaves. i believe the women this way are rather dignified and decent instead of cleavage showing horny nymphos !!
1John2_26 said
Three witnesses in a back room is not justice. There has been many internet videos of this form of justice and the world has spoken its opinion. In fact not many people seem happy about Islamic justice. Tourists should never be beheahed. It's incredible that this point needs to be brought up in a civilized debate forum.
Wat makes u think that they're muslims in the videos. It may be a scene filmed in hollywood to bring about more tension : just like that video that shows bin laden and his friends watching tv and thanking god the planes crashed into the towers. wat they were speaking WASNT arabic, more like nonsense u speak of.
1John2_26 said
Occupation and war IS the history of Islam. But please, compare an army of uniformed soldiers to hi-jackers and suicide bombers and jihad terrorists. BIG difference.
Once again u proved my pt wen u said this. Islam having grown in so called before ' Arabia' was the reason the sword was used. The bedoins living over there had no sense of tolerance to anything opposing their mindsets just like America nowadays. When Muhammad preached the word of god in peace they came about threatening to kill him. Then plz mind the crusades' brutality out of this topic becz thats a whole different issue.
1John2_26 said
Mecca is not a jewish town. It was not a political victory for Mohammad. It was won with the sword. Jihad means what we all know it means. War.
Wat i said clarifies this as well
1John2_26 said
Mecca is not a jewish town. It was not a political victory for Mohammad. It was won with the sword. Jihad means what we all know it means. War.
"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)" and also
"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:17-18)" but then
"Thou shalt not kill (or murder). (Exodus 20:13)" !!!
Violence in christiaity is here very justifiable
1John2_26 said
Calling Islam a race just proved my point.
race [rayss]
(plural rac-es)
noun
1. group of humans: one of the groups into which the world's population can be divided on the basis of physical characteristics such as skin or hair color
Microsoft Encarta 2006. 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
By wat i said i ment the islamic ppl/race.
1John2_26 said
The Koran says not to make friends of Christians and Jews because they are a friends of each other. And then gives a warning to Muslim's if they do.
instead of making foolish statements provide reliable sources i.e the Koran Sunnah...
1John2_26 said
What happened to Germany and Japan after America literally smashed them to bits after World War Two?
I give my sympathy to the Japenese, they were beaten by cheating, by a very low method.
1John2_26 said
Germany is a perfect example of the west versus Islamic rule.
Am i missing out over here plz give links, sources or books.ur clearly trespassing ur borders here buddy, wen u make a pt justify it or remain silent[/b]
How many people (not terrorists and Jihad warriors) rush to emigrate to Islaimic Sharia controlled countries? How many Nigerians have run for their lives out of Nigeria, from Islamic jihad warfare? Spain and Europe are flooded with "Muslims" leaving Islamic run countries to live under infidel-ruled countries. Why? To be "blessed" with the abilty to survive and thrive.
Now ur saying that jihad and terrorists are the same thing. For ur information A LOT of ppl are immigrating to Islamic countries, esp Saudi Arabia becz it has two blessed cities of Mecca and Madinah, the difference is Saudi Arabia isnt bragging about how much ppl move in! If u dont understand the meaning of jihad, then i suggest u take ur trash talk elsewhere read more about jihad here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad. All the muslims immigrating to Spain, Europe and U.S.A are only doing so so that they could improve their work positions and try to climb up the social ladder to calm things around the middle east. Regarding Nigeria i dont know anything about that but i can say ur wrong no matter wat becz from wat ive heard so far, u have no clue wat ur talking about !!
1John2_26 said
People joining the Taliban to enslave women and kill non-taliban people. But, how about: How many people (from non-Islamic countries are rushing to emigrate to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian Israel etc., etc..
Women behind the veil being beaten up by her husband in Afghanistan. I remember seeing that on Cbs and Cnn. Funny how i dont compare u to the fundamentalist KKK. maybe its becz i know better that making false immature judgements, but hey seems u lack intelligence wen u say veiled women equal slaves. i believe the women this way are rather dignified and decent instead of cleavage showing horny nymphos !!
1John2_26 said
Three witnesses in a back room is not justice. There has been many internet videos of this form of justice and the world has spoken its opinion. In fact not many people seem happy about Islamic justice. Tourists should never be beheahed. It's incredible that this point needs to be brought up in a civilized debate forum.
Wat makes u think that they're muslims in the videos. It may be a scene filmed in hollywood to bring about more tension : just like that video that shows bin laden and his friends watching tv and thanking god the planes crashed into the towers. wat they were speaking WASNT arabic, more like nonsense u speak of.
1John2_26 said
Occupation and war IS the history of Islam. But please, compare an army of uniformed soldiers to hi-jackers and suicide bombers and jihad terrorists. BIG difference.
Once again u proved my pt wen u said this. Islam having grown in so called before ' Arabia' was the reason the sword was used. The bedoins living over there had no sense of tolerance to anything opposing their mindsets just like America nowadays. When Muhammad preached the word of god in peace they came about threatening to kill him. Then plz mind the crusades' brutality out of this topic becz thats a whole different issue.
1John2_26 said
Mecca is not a jewish town. It was not a political victory for Mohammad. It was won with the sword. Jihad means what we all know it means. War.
Wat i said clarifies this as well
1John2_26 said
Mecca is not a jewish town. It was not a political victory for Mohammad. It was won with the sword. Jihad means what we all know it means. War.
"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)" and also
"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:17-18)" but then
"Thou shalt not kill (or murder). (Exodus 20:13)" !!!
Violence in christiaity is here very justifiable
1John2_26 said
Calling Islam a race just proved my point.
race [rayss]
(plural rac-es)
noun
1. group of humans: one of the groups into which the world's population can be divided on the basis of physical characteristics such as skin or hair color
Microsoft Encarta 2006. 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
By wat i said i ment the islamic ppl/race.
1John2_26 said
The Koran says not to make friends of Christians and Jews because they are a friends of each other. And then gives a warning to Muslim's if they do.
instead of making foolish statements provide reliable sources i.e the Koran Sunnah...
1John2_26 said
What happened to Germany and Japan after America literally smashed them to bits after World War Two?
I give my sympathy to the Japenese, they were beaten by cheating, by a very low method.
1John2_26 said
Germany is a perfect example of the west versus Islamic rule.
Am i missing out over here plz give links, sources or books.ur clearly trespassing ur borders here buddy, wen u make a pt justify it or remain silent[/b]
Post #19
I'm not sure how this response deals with my questions raised... But, there have been many innocents sent to die in prisons across the United States, and many guilty who have been set free. Our justice system has it's flaws too; but, that's not the point here. The issue I'm raising is your use of sweeping generalizations and consistent, irresponsible misrepresentation of reality- you define peoples and religion (in this case Muslims and Islam) by oversimplified, sensationalized, extremes, rather than tending to the complex reality of both.palmera wrote: Is pluralism not present in the U.S., indeed the whole of "the West?"
Internal struggles, battles and wars have been, are, and will always be fought within nations. You speak of the West as peaceful, non-violent; this simply isn't true.
1John2_26 wrote:
Really? How many innocent people are beheaded by anyone in western countries. Your comparison is not sound. The west is so much better than any Islamic country, please sir.
Which countries do you speak of? Who in those countries do you speak of?- those in power? those marginalized? the rich, the poor, the peaceful, the violent, the men, women, or children? For whom do you speak here? "The Islamic worldview" does not exist; much in the same way that no "Christian" worldview or "Buddhist" worldview exists. Humans and their beliefs are far more completed than you argue. To suggest so implies that ever Muslim in an Islamic country and elsewhere adheres to the same interpretations of and specific set of beliefs within Islam and its prophets, its scripture, etc...None of these countries ever refer to themselves without the collective Islamic world view. Which is one of pure violence and subjugation of non-belivers. That's just a fact.
It's interesting how you immediately assume I'm talking about "gangst's and thugs." I may be wrong here, but judging from your response, it seems that you associate violence in the U.S.A. (or the west in general) first and foremost with African Americans... It would make it easier to keep ones delusions of a peaceful west by ignoring those violent aspects of it- like "gangst's and thugs," and our very own Oklahoma suicide bomber, our cannibals, our religious suicides/murders (Heaven's gate ring a bell?) and our human traffickers, our hate crimes and school shootings... where's the peaceful sanity of our more civilized, "better" America?Leave gangst's and thugs out of this. And besides Crips and Bloods don't behead tourists!!!!
Good point. Kind of like how current right wing fundamentalist religion in the United States believes in the diversity of sexual orientation or definition of marriage and family. Sort of like our loving race relations in the West over the past couple of centuries, and how we found no problem with letting females have the right to actually vote... Part of the human mental condition sees the world as dualistic and must be jolted into the realization that the world is complex, that diversity exists as many shades of grey defying our every attempt to force the whole of the world and human experience into an easy to see and define black and white reality.Thinking there is any comparison to an Islamic mind and a mind that believes in diversity is rooted in delusion.
What exactly is the Islamic mind? Are you again suggesting that all people of the Islamic faith see the world in one, the same, way? that they believe all the same things and are all violent?
In what way? Do these same words not aptly describe what's going on socially in the west, and specifically the United States right now?Radical ideologies, intolerance and greed are words that define the Middle East countries perfectly.
You're right. There's been a wonderful mythos about the Americas (U.S. over the past 200 yrs.). That rags to riches is a realistic achievement for all; that our democracy and tolerance are a beacon to the rest of the world. But the problem is, things are more complex than that. The prevailing myths about prosperity and peace to be found in America are just that, myths. There are obvious socio-economic advantages to living in a country where the standard of living is higher than that of most nations, but let's not fool ourselves that all who come are welcome to our shores, or that all who come end up better off.The pedestal in the west seems very clearly where everyone from oppresive and worthless countries RUN TO! There is a reason for that.
Regarding the word in bold: do you know how arrogant that sounds??????
Men at ease have contempt for misfortune
as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
Post #20
To you both I have a comparison.
Bin Laden or Billy Graham?
Other than that the utter unbeliveable defense of Islam is a place I feel like where I pick up my marbles and go home and be thankful that I am not going to be beheaded for any perceived insult to the religion of peace.
Sura 5:51:
Bin Laden or Billy Graham?
Other than that the utter unbeliveable defense of Islam is a place I feel like where I pick up my marbles and go home and be thankful that I am not going to be beheaded for any perceived insult to the religion of peace.
Sura 5:51:
And remember there is no old and new testaments in the Qur'an:"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends1. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrongdoers." The Table (5) #51.
3:151
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.
8:60
And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah...
8:12
I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Moreover Allah says of those who reject him. Because, Allah has already sentenced them to death.
Unbelievers
2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them
2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression
2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah
4:48 "Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed."
4:84, Then fight in Allahs cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.
4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers
5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
8:15-16, O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allahs: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself
8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers
9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.
9:3, And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
9:23, O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.
9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.
9:29, Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.
9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
9:111, Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran
9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
22:9, (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah: for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).
22:19-22; These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"
25:52, So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.
25:68 "Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. "(But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy,-
37:22-23, "Bring ye up", it shall be said, "The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped- Besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the (Fierce) Fire!
47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.
48:13 And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!
48:29, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.
