Should we teach children the Old Testament?

ShieldAxe · Post by **ShieldAxe** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:19 pm

Is it appropriate to teach children bible stories of the Old Testament? Is this material suitable for kids? Take Abraham for example. Is it wise to teach kids that Abraham was willing to kill his own son for god and god was honored by this? Is it acceptable to teach kids that this is admirable behavior?
http://www.jesusandkidz.com/Abraham/Page10.htm

What about Sodom and Gomorrah? Is it prudent to teach kids that an entire city can be filled with bad people worthy of being wiped out? Is right to teach children a city should be destroyed because of sexual immorality? Aren't there far better ways to teach kids about sex?

Bugmaster · Post by **Bugmaster** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:30 pm

ShieldAxe wrote:I think it would be better if we just taught kids that human sacrifice to god or gods is absolutely wrong. They should be taught that any voice in your head telling you do conduct such an act is wrong.

Yeah, no kidding. Think of it fromt the child's perspective: what kind of message is the story of Abraham sending ? "Well honey, I do love you, but if God told me to kill you, I'd do it in a second. Sleep tight now !" That's childhood trauma, right there.

Tim the Skeptic · Post by **Tim the Skeptic** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:05 pm

I would argue tha the Old Testament isn't really taught. Look at what gets left out of Sunday school.

Let's start with Sodom and Gomorrah.

Were you taught that Lot, a righteous man, offered his two daughters to the mob as replacements for the two angels? Lot was OK with the mob doing whatever they wanted with his girls.

Were you taught that his two daughters got Lot drunk, and had sex with him. If we talked about this in church school, I sure don't remember it.

I think I might have remembered that.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:33 pm

I think El told him to kill his kid and an angel of YHWH stopped him.
It is interesting that Abraham came down from the mount alone.
I can just picture some kid hearing the story and looking at dad wondering if he is going to sacrifice him. Now at that time many were sacrificing their children to their gods.
I think these stories are from the early times in pre-Jewish Jewish history they were basically Canaanites and worshiped El along with other gods.
They also sacrificed children as many other cultures.
If you read the later prophets you find them complaining about the sacrifices and the temple cult with their priest that were writing the laws and saying Moses did it. That writing is now called the Torah. Much of what we have as the OT was written by priest for priest and foisted on the people. When Ezra and company reworked the writings for Cyrus' control.
The Book sustained the community along with other writings and commentaries. They are filed wit myths, legends, and even some history. Some times that history was from opposing groups. If you read it you will find priest/king/prophet battles going on and depending on who wrote it or edited the work, one group or another is the bad guy. The Christian belief that it is a single voice is just nonsense. The NT has it's same problems.
David names one of his sons after Baal. There was no 10 commandments at that time. There may have been codes. Deut. was created during Josiah time. Again all of it was edited and added to including the prophets. Busy priests for sure.

ShieldAxe · Post by **ShieldAxe** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:57 pm

Tim the Skeptic wrote:I would argue tha the Old Testament isn't really taught.

There are books and websites that teach these OT stories. Presumably people use them.
http://www.jesusandkidz.com/Abraham/Page1.htm

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:22 pm

Nice site ShieldAxe.
But it did remind me of a thing I was reading about an ancient artafact that was around long before Abraham. It is a Ram with it's horns caught in a thicket. There was probably an old tale or story about a Ram and a thicket and ended up as part of the Abraham story. Many scholars believe that the stories about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were composite people that made up the Canaanite history and myth and were used to unite various tribes. The Sampson stories came from a group of Phoenicians that honored Hercules later this group became the tribe of Dan. The tribe Sampson belong to was Dan.

Tim the Skeptic · Post by **Tim the Skeptic** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:34 pm

ShieldAxe:

Went to the website. Very disappointing: no story of Lot and his daughters.

Wonder how they would have illustrated that?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:48 pm

Wonder how they would have illustrated that?

Sounds like a porn movie idea to me.
Maybe they are afraid all the daughters would go home and get dad drunk?

ShieldAxe · Post by **ShieldAxe** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:18 pm

Cathar1950 wrote:
Wonder how they would have illustrated that?
Sounds like a porn movie idea to me.
Maybe they are afraid all the daughters would go home and get dad drunk?

What is the intended "good" message of that story anyway?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:26 pm

Ezra and Nehemiah

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:54 pm

I have found some uses for the Lot and his daughters story.
Here is one that is really interesting.
It clearly shows how a story on incest can help the boys and girls.
I am sure you will find it touching.
http://www.porn-free.org/Devotions/devo ... od_II.htm

The story of Lot and his daughters sounds like a plot from a porn movie. It is an example of the Bibles frankness and honesty about peoples failures. It makes a powerful case for waiting on Gods best for our sexual desires.

Lot may never have had a good relationship with his daughters. These were the two whom Lot offered to the angry mob in Sodom in place of his two angelic visitors (Genesis 19:8). He apparently preferred to have the mob rape his virgin daughters than harm the two strangers (angels) staying at his house for the night (see Genesis 19:8).

The daughters believed the lies that Satan often uses in sexual temptations. He suggests that Gods provision for sexuality in marriage is not reliable or that its not worth holding out for. Satan then offers clever counterfeits that offer short term sexual pleasure, such as illicit sex, fornication, pornography, masturbation, phone sex and prostitution. These all have negative and unpleasant consequences in one way or another.

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah may have seemed like an end of the world scenario to Lots daughters. They were stuck in a cave with little or no contact with the rest of the world. They feared they would not be able to have suitable husbands, so they decided to sleep with their father. Instead of securing blessed futures and families, they brought about dysfunctional families who became bitter enemies of Gods people.

We can only guess at what would have happened if Lots daughters had waited on Gods provision for them. Perhaps they and their descendants would have found favor with God, just as their uncle Abraham had. It is always best to wait on Gods provision for our lives, especially in sexual matters. It is not usually comfortable to wait, and it requires that we submit our wills to Gods will. In the end, well be glad we did.

If youve already blown it by not waiting for Gods best for your sexuality, you can be forgiven and receive healing from what has happened. Check out our Freedom Journey 1 online course for help in getting started.

Questions for further thought:

How were peer pressure and alcohol also factors in this story?

How did Satan tempt Jesus to forgo waiting on God? (Luke 4:1-13)

How might the spiritual environment of the daughters hometown (Sodom) have affected their judgment? (Genesis 13:11-13, Genesis 18:20, 2 Peter 2:7-8)

What role did Lots fear play in this story? (Genesis 19:15-21, 30)