Should my Dad be killed?

[Slopeshoulder]

My father, a great guy who never hurt a fly, always followed the rules, rose up from public housing to a great career and put 5 sons through college, went to school on a track scholarship, active in church, never missed mass, worked in charity, and served in the army, has ALS, late stage. He is locked in, can only move his eyes, can't express when he has back pain, neck pain, or sadness. He has a feeding tube. Bed sores too. But in addition, he has symptoms not associated with ALS, like loss of bladder and bowel control (as well as impaction), rage, crying, and delusional thinking (some theorize that he has "chronic lyme"). He is also slowly choking and needs his lungs vaccumed. The condition is always fatal, always. Because he's strong as a horse, he's taking a long time to die (years). His situation is "the torture of the damned" as my grandmother would say, and "toe curlingly sad" as my brother says.
All the stuff about comfort care turned out to be a crock, a lie. His "care" is a joke, doctors lie, and he is a mere statistic for their failed research (best places in NY, DC, and Boston).

He wants out. He's reconciled. He's ready. He also wants to stop spending money so my mom has more to live on, and he wants to slow down her aging because caring for him is really aging her quickly (plus she's near deaf and has a slipped disk).

Should he be allowed dr. assisted suicide? (He can't do it himself, and no one is suggesting euthanasia, or murder). I suggested he go for it a few years ago, but now he's ready. Can we help him out of his misery?

Would anyone wave a bible verse or doctrine in his face and tell him to suck it up? And call themselves compassionate christians?

[Angel]

My father, a great guy who never hurt a fly, always followed the rules, rose up from public housing to a great career and put 5 sons through college, went to school on a track scholarship, active in church, never missed mass, worked in charity, and served in the army, has ALS, late stage. He is locked in, can only move his eyes, can't express when he has back pain, neck pain, or sadness. He has a feeding tube. Bed sores too. But in addition, he has symptoms not associated with ALS, like loss of bladder and bowel control (as well as impaction), rage, crying, and delusional thinking (some theorize that he has "chronic lyme"). He is also slowly choking and needs his lungs vaccumed. The condition is always fatal, always. Because he's strong as a horse, he's taking a long time to die (years). His situation is "the torture of the damned" as my grandmother would say, and "toe curlingly sad" as my brother says.
All the stuff about comfort care turned out to be a crock, a lie. His "care" is a joke, doctors lie, and he is a mere statistic for their failed research (best places in NY, DC, and Boston).

He wants out. He's reconciled. He's ready. He also wants to stop spending money so my mom has more to live on, and he wants to slow down her aging because caring for him is really aging her quickly (plus she's near deaf and has a slipped disk).

Should he be allowed dr. assisted suicide? (He can't do it himself, and no one is suggesting euthanasia, or murder). I suggested he go for it a few years ago, but now he's ready. Can we help him out of his misery?

First, I want to say you have a great dad and I'm sorry for your dad's current sufferings. I'll try to answer your questions from a Christian/biblical standpoint. For the record, my biblical views tend to be aligned with a moderate to semi-conservative views on the Bible. With that said, if your dad wants to end his life then I believe it's okay in these circumstances. He's sick, there's financial reasons, seems he's watched his children grow and prosper or at least have the potential to. I can't offer you a perfect standard but I'll at least say that suicide should not be for arbitrary reasons but it can be for reasons to avoid/limit pain and suffering from an illness. I'd say the same thing for babies who are born with painful diseases through no fault of their own, like babies who are born with cystic fibrosis (an incurable, chronic, life-threatening, costly disease).

Would anyone wave a bible verse or doctrine in his face and tell him to suck it up? And call themselves compassionate christians?

I believe there are passages that might support your father's decision. For instance,

Ephesians 5:25-
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her

I take this verse to mean that a husband must be willing to give up his life for his wife. In a way, that's what your father is doing to help her out. I hope he talks with his wife about it first.


Then there's also that passage about Samson who had his eyes gouged out and prayed to get strength to kill himself in order to kill Israel's enemies in the process (Judges 16:28-30).

[Mr. LongView]

Sorry for your fathers pain.

If God is kind, loving, and compassionate, then why not?

I'd imagine that God gets it.

[-Revelation-]

I'm sorry for your father's pain. But even though your father is going through unimaginable pain, the thing is, though, that we, as humans, can't take life. We've been given life to steward, and so we cannot take control of the termination human life (other than in absoloutely necessary cases of just war, self-defence etc.) and be morally justified in my view.

Now, there IS some sort of divine being in existence, whatever you label it, Allah, Nature, the list goes on and on. So you have to ask yourself "can I destroy something that doesn't belong to me?"

[Slopeshoulder]

I'm sorry for your father's pain. But even though your father is going through unimaginable pain, the thing is, though, that we, as humans, can't take life. We've been given life to steward, and so we cannot take control of the termination human life (other than in absoloutely necessary cases of just war, self-defence etc.) and be morally justified in my view.

Now, there IS some sort of divine being in existence, whatever you label it, Allah, Nature, the list goes on and on. So you have to ask yourself "can I destroy something that doesn't belong to me?"

I don't have the luxury of calling his pain "unimaginable." I have to see it.

To be clear: the issue is not euthanasia, but rather about a professional using their body to do what the afflicted cannot do, at the afflicted's request, to be his agent and assist in suicide, in a legal context (oregon, swiqtzerland, washington).

I'd say my father owns his life. It is already destroyed. He know wishes it were over.

[-Revelation-]

I don't have the luxury of calling his pain "unimaginable." I have to see it.

To be clear: the issue is not euthanasia, but rather about a professional using their body to do what the afflicted cannot do, at the afflicted's request, to be his agent and assist in suicide, in a legal context (oregon, swiqtzerland, washington).

I'd say my father owns his life. It is already destroyed. He know wishes it were over.

All right, though it is unimaginable for me.

Isn't that pretty much what euthanasia is? If not, I'd like to know what you think it is.

Again, did your father create his own life? Just because he has control, does that mean he owns it? As an example, say I'm a hunter and I've cornered an animal and I can end its life here and now, so I'm in complete control of its life. Does that mean I own it? I know these situations aren't the same, but hopefully you get the point I'm making. Control=/=Ownership

[McCulloch]

Now, there IS some sort of divine being in existence, whatever you label it, Allah, Nature, the list goes on and on. So you have to ask yourself "can I destroy something that doesn't belong to me?"

It remains debatable whether some sort of divine being (whatever that means) exists.

If your own life does not belong to you, then the entire concept of ownership is meaningless. If you don't own yourself, then you don't own anything.

[Slopeshoulder]

I don't have the luxury of calling his pain "unimaginable." I have to see it.

To be clear: the issue is not euthanasia, but rather about a professional using their body to do what the afflicted cannot do, at the afflicted's request, to be his agent and assist in suicide, in a legal context (oregon, swiqtzerland, washington).

I'd say my father owns his life. It is already destroyed. He know wishes it were over.

All right, though it is unimaginable for me.

Isn't that pretty much what euthanasia is? If not, I'd like to know what you think it is.

Euthanasia is ending a life that others deem is not worth living.
But doctor assisted suicide is helping a person who has decided they wish to stop living.
The difference is in who decides. I'm not advocating euthanasia.

Again, did your father create his own life? Just because he has control, does that mean he owns it? As an example, say I'm a hunter and I've cornered an animal and I can end its life here and now, so I'm in complete control of its life. Does that mean I own it? I know these situations aren't the same, but hopefully you get the point I'm making. Control=/=Ownership

So you're saying God owns it and only God can end it.
OK, I disagree. I think that puts bloodless theology in front of bloody suffering. And no God I'd affirm would do that. And as I recall, didn't.

[DiscipleOfTruth]

I'm sorry for your father's pain.

Something I want to ask you. In your first paragraph you said he has delusional thinking. But in your second paragraph you said he doesn't want to continue living. So if his thinking is delusional then how do you know he really doesn't want to live anymore?

I would strongly suggest keeping him alive for the sake of doubt that if he was in a sound mind frame he might want to live it out. Another thing to remember is that while it may take him years to reach the end, this also provides time, which in itself could lead to a cure if something should be discovered through the advancements of the medical field.

My opinion is that I think he should continue to live for the sake of hope and possibility that he would of really wanted to live. If a person recovers and then reveals that they wish they didn't live then they have the freedom to fix that situation. If they would of wanted to live but didn't have that opportunity because someone else took i away, then that is not something they can't fix. I believe that such a decision over his life should only be made by him through the reasoning of a sound mind.

[Slopeshoulder]

I'm sorry for your father's pain.

Something I want to ask you. In your first paragraph you said he has delusional thinking. But in your second paragraph you said he doesn't want to continue living. So if his thinking is delusional then how do you know he really doesn't want to live anymore?

I would strongly suggest keeping him alive for the sake of doubt that if he was in a sound mind frame he might want to live it out. Another thing to remember is that while it may take him years to reach the end, this also provides time, which in itself could lead to a cure if something should be discovered through the advancements of the medical field.

My opinion is that I think he should continue to live for the sake of hope and possibility that he would of really wanted to live. If a person recovers and then reveals that they wish they didn't live then they have the freedom to fix that situation. If they would of wanted to live but didn't have that opportunity because someone else took i away, then that is not something they can't fix. I believe that such a decision over his life should only be made by him through the reasoning of a sound mind.

All that is reasonable on its face, if a bit naive re: hope for a cure.

But he articulated clearly and repeatedly that he had no interest in living and would consider a slow decline to be a form of hell he'd like to avoid, when he was of sound mind. But he didn't formally take steps then and now your concern is valid. he only went as far as a do not resuccitate order. So that's it.