Pornography vs. Prostitution

[Angel]

It's hard to see a real difference between pornography and prostitution other than perhaps the latter being more risky (random sex partners) and less accepted than than the other. Other than that, both involve promiscuity, both involve having sex for money, etc. etc.

Debate Questions:
I know there's currently a legal difference between porn and prostitution (one being criminal and the other not) depending on what country you live in, but is there a real moral difference?

[Quath]

I remember talking to a massage therapist about her job. I said, "to summarize, you are a woman who makes people feel good with the use of your body." She was not entirely happy with that, but she thought it was a good point in support of prostitution.

I don't see a moral difference, but I also don't see either as wrong either.

[His Name Is John]

Just to clarify, by 'pornography' you mean 'watching pornography' rather than 'partaking in pornography'. Then you also have the question, if by 'prostitution' you mean 'being a prostitute' or you mean 'going to a prostitute'.

Once that is made clear I can answer for you

[Haven]

I see no appreciable difference between the two from a moral standpoint. Both should be legal.

[connermt]

Debate Questions:
I know there's currently a legal difference between porn and prostitution (one being criminal and the other not) depending on what country you live in, but is there a real moral difference?

Maybe it depends on how much a prostitute's getting paid vs. a porn actor?
The reality is that it's not our place to make such a decision unless we are involved in one or both of these activities.
That said, for me, so long as it doesn't harm the other person outside what they understand, I say "meh I don't much care".

[Angel]

Just to clarify, by 'pornography' you mean 'watching pornography' rather than 'partaking in pornography'. Then you also have the question, if by 'prostitution' you mean 'being a prostitute' or you mean 'going to a prostitute'.

Once that is made clear I can answer for you

Well I wanted to speak in terms of comparison. I wanted to know everyone's view on if there's a moral difference between participating in pornography and participating in prostitution.

[Thatguy]

It's hard to see a real difference between pornography and prostitution other than perhaps the latter being more risky (random sex partners) and less accepted than than the other. Other than that, both involve promiscuity, both involve having sex for money, etc. etc.

Debate Questions:
I know there's currently a legal difference between porn and prostitution (one being criminal and the other not) depending on what country you live in, but is there a real moral difference?

Interesting question. I have similar moral problems with each. I agree with the current US law that they are sufficiently different that one can be legal and one not. I think both, though, should be legal.

My moral qualms are directed not at the prostitute or the actor, but at the person hiring them. I have moral trouble with someone who would exploit for money a person in dire financial condition. On the other hand, that does happen to be the basis of our economic system.

If a person in great need of money feels there's no other way to make that money legally than to degrade themselves and suffer shame and humiliation then taking advantage of that person seems immoral to me. On the other hand, if someone does not mind having sex for money then I see nothing morally wrong with it. There are any number of other acts that might be considered degrading by the participants that can be done for money, though, and I have trouble with that morally, too. I don't see that degrading someone sexually for money is necessarily more morally unacceptable than degrading someone non-sexually.

Currently, hiring someone to directly provide sexual services to yourself or someone of your choosing is prostitution. Actors in porn aren't hired to provide sexual services for the pleasure of other actors in porn. it's acting, the sexual gratification of the actors isn't anyone's real concern. So hiring actors is sufficiently different from hiring a performer that I can see a basis for a legal distinction.

I couldn't define what is and what is not pornographic, though. I know of no objective standard and am reluctant to make criminal something as vague and subjective as "pornography." I disagree with the courts as to free speech considerations. Pornography conveys a message about life. I usually disagree with the message, but the messages about objectifying bodies, or about how life is just a series of sexual situations and humans are incapable of restraining their lusts aren't messages I necessarily agree with. Messages about the body or sex not being sources of shame are better messages in porn. But ideas don't have to meet with my approval to deserve free speech protection.

[His Name Is John]

Just to clarify, by 'pornography' you mean 'watching pornography' rather than 'partaking in pornography'. Then you also have the question, if by 'prostitution' you mean 'being a prostitute' or you mean 'going to a prostitute'.

Once that is made clear I can answer for you

Well I wanted to speak in terms of comparison. I wanted to know everyone's view on if there's a moral difference between participating in pornography and participating in prostitution.

Oh, right. No there is no moral difference.

The word 'pornography' actually comes from the Greek, meaning "a written description or illustration of prostitutes or prostitution". Both are getting paid to do the same thing.

If anything pornography is worst, because not only are you having intercourse with another for money, but you are also filming (or keeping a record) in order to sell to others.

In my opinion, both should be illegal.

[McCulloch]

In my opinion, both [pornography and prostitution] should be illegal.

I would have thought that by now, we might have learned that legal prohibition is not an effective way to effectively deal with societal moral issues. Oh well.

Both should be legal, for a number of reasons. Firstly, there is a matter of definition. "I cannot exactly define it, but I know it when I see it" is not the kind of definition that holds up in court. Hard core, soft porn, erotica, lap-dancing, actors in an otherwise mainstream movie depicted as having normal sex ....

But the second and more important issue is the matter of legal protection for the workers involved. So long as their work is not legal, sex workers and porn models have no legal protection. Keeping this part of the economy underground, just strengthens organized crime and undermines our societies' respect for the rule of law. On the other hand, if it was legal, then these crimes could be less exploitative and become truly victimless.

[His Name Is John]

I would have thought that by now, we might have learned that legal prohibition is not an effective way to effectively deal with societal moral issues. Oh well.

Not on its own. But I never suggested only make them illegal and do nothing else.

Both should be legal, for a number of reasons. Firstly, there is a matter of definition. "I cannot exactly define it, but I know it when I see it" is not the kind of definition that holds up in court. Hard core, soft porn, erotica, lap-dancing, actors in an otherwise mainstream movie depicted as having normal sex ....

So you can't define porn?

It is fairly definable. Soft core, hard core. Both would be illegal.

As for prostitution, lap-dancing and erotica would also be illegal.

But the second and more important issue is the matter of legal protection for the workers involved. So long as their work is not legal, sex workers and porn models have no legal protection.

What do you mean by no legal protection?

Keeping this part of the economy underground, just strengthens organized crime and undermines our societies' respect for the rule of law. On the other hand, if it was legal, then these crimes could be less exploitative and become truly victimless.

This is such an unrealistic view of the situation:

I live in a country where prostitution is legal (as I guess you aren't talking about porn when you say that it will strengthen organized crime). The thing is, making it legal does nothing to stop the crimes. In-fact it creates a larger market for the illegal sex trade to flourish within.

Take a look at the mayor of Amsterdam (prostitution is legal in the Netherlands), Job Cohen having said about legal prostitution in his city:

"We’ve realized this is no longer about small-scale entrepreneurs, but that big crime organizations are involved here in trafficking women, drugs, killings and other criminal activities"

AND:

"We realize that this [legal prostitution] hasn’t worked, that trafficking in women continues. Women are now moved around more, making police work more difficult.�

Also, tree British ministers (Vernon Coaker, Barbara Follett and Vera Baird) had visited the Netherlands to study their approach to the sex trade, and had come to the conclusion that their policy of legal prostitution was not effective, and had therefore ruled out the legalization of prostitution in the UK.

Although their opinions were eventually overruled.

A huge percentage of the prostitution in England is drug, crime or poverty related. Making it illegal allows the police to do a blanket ban. Making it legal means the police cannot stop individual prostitutes and to prove that they are working for a criminal pimp is extremely hard.

This whole idea of 'lets legalise it to remove the business from the criminals' is a massively flawed idea. The problem is, it applies to almost ever law of this sort (one which criminals actively partake within):

Drugs, prostitution, weapons.

Making such things legal (thus saying 'we don't think there is anything wrong with this') is hardly the answer, in the end you are making the criminal way of life the prophetic vision of future, all the while doing so in order to stop crime.

Just because the goverment does something wrong, doesn't then mean it is right, in the end you have the goverment taking on the role of the criminals. One sure way of cutting down on illegal activity is to get rid of every laws. Just think about that.