Morality

[Mr.Badham]

Morality is based entirely on consent.

I propose that;
You cannot morally force someone to do something they don't want to do.

If I'm wrong, you will give an example of something you can force someone to do that they don't want to do.

[nyan-eleven]

Rainbow Dash and Twighlight Sparkle never consent to anything and they are beautiful creatures, such tender ponies. Oh how I long to frolic with them.

[Logomachist]

Morality is based entirely on consent.

I propose that;
You cannot morally force someone to do something they don't want to do.

If I'm wrong, you will give an example of something you can force someone to do that they don't want to do.

This would make immoral just about any law of any kind and strictly interpreted would not rule out murder, theft, and many other acts widely believed to be immoral.


[quote="richardP
Considering the argument for morality under #1, man's behavior is dictated not by himself or even by his community but by God. Behavior is absolute and not subject for interpretation. A sub-set of this logic is that it's OK for man to kill animals because they are not infused with the divine spark - they aren't made in the image of God. It is not OK to kill humans because they are made in His image.
[/quote]

God rarely intervenes to tell us what is moral. We have scripture, but Christian scripture is full of contradictions and impractical laws that don't seem to address the moral issues we face in the modern world. Using it as a moral guide with interpretation is challenging, but using it as a guide without any interpretation would be nigh impossible without a major restructuring of our society.

Considering the argument for morality under #2, man's only 'claim to fame' over other critters on the earth is his intelligence. Stop and think a minute. Some animals, like certain species of chimps for instance, are equal in intelligence levels to some retarded human children. A sub-set of this logic is that since it is assumed that there is no divine spark in man, that man isn't made in God's image, is that its equally OK to kill man as well as animals. From this we get eugenics, which justifies racial cleansing and genocide and euthanasia (killing the fetus, terminally sick adults, etc).

1) Saying we shouldn't kill because we're made in God's image IS interpretation which I thought you said wasn't allowed?

2) We naturally make judgments about what is good and bad even when we aren't taught about religion. Why not use these judgments to determine morality? If there is a God, he created us with the ability to do this and to adapt to changing situations (something scripture does slowly). Jesus's simplified commandments (the golden rule, don't be a hypocrite) seem to depend on interpretation and a personal sense of morality that doesn't hinge on God. I think this is a strong endorsement of common sense morality beyond the laws specifically cited in the Bible. Many other religions, with different conceptions of God, share similar moral principles.

3) This is a side topic but I object to the idea that eugenics justifies racial cleansing, genocide and even euthanasia. Properly practiced it would be moral and lead to a healthier, smarter and maybe even a more moral population. It is an unfortunate historical happenstance that it got tied up with Nazism and genocide.

[Yahu]

Morality is based entirely on consent.

I propose that;
You cannot morally force someone to do something they don't want to do.

If I'm wrong, you will give an example of something you can force someone to do that they don't want to do.

Nonsense. The issue isn't about consent to impose their will, it is imposing their will without the authority to do so. It is moral for a parent to correct a child. It is moral for a society to correct violators of the law.

It is not moral for an individual under authority to impose their will onto a higher authority unless that authority is trying to impose immorality against an even higher authority.

A good example of this happened to me in the military. I was given an illegal order. I refused that order and was threatened for it. I resisted. My wife was then threatened. I had grounds for a major law suite against the Air Force.

An individual with authority had given an order that was in violation of regulations and the written military law. When I refused, I was threatened with prosecution and resisted that threat so was threatened with insubordination as well. That was a violation of the retaliation laws.