Is the Urantia Book a branch of Christianity?

[McCulloch]

In the comments and suggestions forum

[the Urantia Book] Is Definitely Not a Branch of Christianity!

I disagree. The question for debate is, "Are the believers of the Urantia Book a branch of Christianity?"

The UB papers include a lot of material about the life and teaching of Jesus. They make the claim that they are following his examples and his teaching. From my perspective, that makes them Christian.

If they are not Christian what religion are they? They are not Buddhist, Sikh, Jewish, Hindu, Islamic, Taoist, Zoroastrian or neo-pagan. They even call themselves Jesusonians.

The teachings in the Urantia Book differ in significant ways from the teachings of the Bible. This is quite apparent. But then so do the Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings and the Mormons'. All of these groups are branches of Christianity in the sense that they make the claim to be the true religious followers of Jesus Christ rather than making the claim to be the true religious followers of Gautama Buddha, the Sikh Gurus, Mohammed et al.

I do not claim that they are true followers of the Christian faith. I don't think that anyone can objectively identify the true followers of Jesus Christ's teachings. But even if they do not follow the teachings of Jesus that does not remove them from being categorized as Christian. It just makes them into heretical Christians.

[Rob]

McCulloch,

Jesusonians would be "Christians" except for the fact that fundamentalist Christians find this objectionable on the grounds of fundamental differences in the purpose of the Master's incarnation in the flesh.

Urantia Paper students tend to view God in a much friendlier light than those who accept the Biblical presentation of a wrathful Deity. We question how a loving Father could ever condone a concept of atonement. It is inconceivable to myself that any father, let alone God the Father, could require the death of his son for crimes he did not commit.

Hi Bll, McCullock, et al.,

Overall, the theology of the UB is consistent with liberal theology. I was browsing the bookstore the other day and skimmed through a book by Huston Smith and was pleasantly surprised to see him flat out rejecting the atonment doctrine for a at-one-ment doctrine. This is nothing new, as increasing deep thinking and thoughtful Christians have a long time ago been taking a critical look at the fundamentalist doctrines which some still cling to.

See the following link for an interesting article on the atonement doctrine:

http://www.religion-online.org/showarti ... title=2138

The Philosopher of Religion John Hick shows how in the early church a diversity of views prevailed, but when the doctrines were eventually laid down, the winners defined the heretics:

1. Hick, John. Evil and the God of Love. Revised ed. New York: Harper & Row Publishers; 1977; c1966 p. 212; 214.

Notes: The definition of heritic is defined by the victor, the one who's teachings dominate over the centuries. But in truth, two traditions were equally valid at one time, and the actual reasons one became dominate and another obscure is part of history and historical fact. Few within the Christian tradition are aware of it, and some reject the Irenaeus tradition of philosophy and theodicy as hertical outright on fundamentalist claims and refuse to even look at the historical facts, saying, don't give me the facts, I've already made up my mind.

[The Urantia Book's teachings on evil, sin, and iniquity, and the reason that evil exists in the world (theodicy) are very similar to the views taught by Irenaeus. Irenaeus' philosophy characterizes the Greek as distinct from the Latin Fathers. Irenaeus taught that "man's basic nature, in distinction from the other animals, is that of a personal being endowed with moral freedom and responsibility. This is the divine in him; he is made a person in the image of God. But man, the finite personal creature capable of personal relationship with his Maker, is as yet only potentially the perfected being whom God is seeking to produce. He is only at the beginning of a process of growth and development in God's continuing providence, which is to culminate in the finite 'likeness' of God. Thus whilst the image of God is man's nature as personal, the divine likeness will be a quality of personal existence which reflects finitely the life of the Creator Himself." (Hick 1977: 212) "Within God's providence man is being taught by his contrasting experience of good and evil to value the one for himself and to shun the other. Hence the mixture of good and evil in our world.... Irenaeus suggests that man was created as an imperfect, immature creature who was to undergo moral development and growth and finally be brought to the perfection intended for him by his maker." (214) What Irenaeus taught above is also what the Urantia Book teaches. I think the idea that "salvation ... is a process" is contained in both the teachings of Irenaeus and the Urantia Book, as well as Process Theology, Buddhism (see Yokota), Hinduism, and so on. Oneness of Buddha and man.]

2. Hick, John. The Interpretation of Religion. New Haven: Yale University Press; 1989; c1989 pp. 118-120.

Notes: The reality and extent of evil ... seem to many positively to demand an atheistic [or, from the Buddhist perpective, pantheistic] conclusion. This is indeed the most serious challenge that there is to theistic faith....

The only line of response that seems to me at all adequate to the full depth of the challenge sees our human existence on this planet as part of a much longer process through which personal spiritual life is being gradually brought in its own freedom to a perfection that will justify retrospectively the evils that have been part of its slow creation. This kind of theodicy goes back within Christian thought to the second-century Greek-speaking apologists, particularly Irenaeus. He offered the story or picture of God creating humankind in two stages with significantly different characters. To describe these in more modern terms, God first brings human beings into existence through the long evolutionary process as intelligent animals who are social and therefore ethical and who are also capable of response to the transcendent. They are not initially formed--as in Chrisitanity's alternative Augustinian type of theodicy--as perfect creaturs living in an ideal relationship to God in the Garden of Eden, but as imperfect creatures brought into being at an epistemic distance from their maker; and they were so formed as a way of endowing them with a genuine freedom in relation to that maker. At this stage human beings are, in Irenaeus' terminology, made in the 'image' of God. But as thus formed they are still only the raw material for the further phase of the creative process in which they are being drawn through their own freedom towards an individual and corporate perfection, which Irenaeus called (using the terminology of Genesis 1:26) the 'likeness' of God.

[Cathar1950]

All right friendlier racism and anti-semitism. Yes it sounds Christian to me.

[McCulloch]

Bill,
I would never argue that the Jesusonians fit the fundamentalist Christian definition of being True Christian. They clearly do not. But, as you so correctly point out, neither do many liberal Christians.
Certainly, from my point of view, the more liberal view of God being significantly less wrathful is a welcome relief. It appears as if the readers of the Urantia Book share with the Progressive Christians the view that rejects the idea that, "time stopped when the Bible was approved in its present form." But then, the fundamentalists would also deny that the Progressive Christians are a branch of Christianity.

[Cathar1950]

It is a enormous claim that the Bible is perfect but incredible that they think the way they read it is perfect too.
Maybe there isn't anything new under the sun but who had a lap top 2000 years ago?

[Billurantia]

Cathar 1950,

Many years ago Gene Scott had a station in Hartford CT. I always enjoyed his presentations from the Greek of the meanings of the words in the Bible and how they were translated into English. I believe he made a good case for the fallibility of translations.

As you point out it is also much more than the words themselves, it is also their interpretation that creates meaning.

The Urantia Papers point out that the Spirit of Truth is necessary for proper interpretation of all religious thought. It is truly not the words but their meaning that counts.

Words are time-bound. When studying the papers, definitions of the words from the nineteenthirties, rather than present usage, often determine fine points of understanding.

Bill,
Faith son

[Sandycane]

edit

[Cathar1950]

Sandycane wrote:

So...would you say that the Spirit of Truth in the UB is the same being/thing/whatever that is known as the Holy Spirit of the Christian bible?

Good question Sandycane I am almost interested in bob's comment.
Of course there are many spirits in the bible stories and books. The is the spirit of lies or lying spirit. The spirit of truth, The spirit of the Lord, the spirit of Christ, the wind of God , wisdom and on and on.
I was interested in the comment "

The Urantia Papers point out that the Spirit of Truth is necessary for proper interpretation of all religious thought. It is truly not the words but their meaning that counts.

I though well how nice that the UB supports what many writers and scholars have said for 100's of years. Which made me wonder how it is suppose to help us reach a higher level of understanding so we can reach the next level. Except for what seems like the pure fantasy aspects, it seems to be redundant and some times simple minded.

[Sandycane]

edit

[Billurantia]

Sandycane,

From the Bible:

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

From the Urantia papers:

P1948:1, 180:4.1 Jesus continued to teach, saying: "When I have gone to the Father, and after he has fully accepted the work I have done for you on earth, and after I have received the final sovereignty of my own domain, I shall say to my Father: Having left my children alone on earth, it is in accordance with my promise to send them another teacher. And when the Father shall approve, I will pour out the Spirit of Truth upon all flesh. Already is my Father's spirit in your hearts, and when this day shall come, you will also have me with you even as you now have the Father. This new gift is the spirit of living truth. The unbelievers will not at first listen to the teachings of this spirit, but the sons of light will all receive him gladly and with a whole heart. And you shall know this spirit when he comes even as you have known me, and you will receive this gift in your hearts, and he will abide with you. You thus perceive that I am not going to leave you without help and guidance. I will not leave you desolate. Today I can be with you only in person. In the times to come I will be with you and all other men who desire my presence, wherever you may be, and with each of you at the same time. Do you not discern that it is better for me to go away; that I leave you in the flesh so that I may the better and the more fully be with you in the spirit?

P1949:3, 180:5.1 The new helper which Jesus promised to send into the hearts of believers, to pour out upon all flesh, is the Spirit of Truth. This divine endowment is not the letter or law of truth, neither is it to function as the form or expression of truth. The new teacher is the conviction of truth, the consciousness and assurance of true meanings on real spirit levels. And this new teacher is the spirit of living and growing truth, expanding, unfolding, and adaptative truth.

[Rob]

They claim to be followers of Jesus. Well that' fine and good but the Jesus they follow is not the one Christians follow. Just because they use the same names that are in the bible does not mean they are the same people. Ask any Christian if they consider the bible to be the Word of God. Then ask a UBer and see if you get the same answer.

The Word of God is living truth and its fruit is living love; not the dead letters of fundamentalist ideological beliefs that would based upon narrow minded dogmatic literalistic beliefs about the Bible exclude the honest of heart and those who love living truth from the family of God. Jesus Spirit of Truth is as much present in the heart of the truth loving atheist as it is in the heart of the truth loving agnostic, or the sinner who recognizes the error of their ways and sincerely desires to live the truth.

3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God.

5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.

6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear.

20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Sandy's words are of the same spirit as those spoken by the Pharasees who sought to exclude those who did not subscribe to the their narrow minded dogmas, and hence lead them to speak and do all manner of immoral, unethical, and sinful and wicked deeds.

Those who love the truth, in all its forms (scientific (i.e., evolution is a fact), moral (i.e., all men and women are our brothers and sisters), and ethical (i.e., we should speak carefully, before we pronounce others outside the truth or salvation), and spiritual (i.e., living truth is dynamic, and ever growing), are included in Jesus' bestowal of the Spirit of Truth and fellowshiped in his invisible spiritual brotherhood of the faith sons and daughters of God.

And of course, the majority of Christians today are not of the fundamentalist mindset as Sandy so consistently gives expression, and hence, are too excluded from grace and salvation.

Sandy seeks to divinde, to separate, to label, to pass judgement based upon the letter of narrow minded literal dogmatic beliefs about the Bible, rather than the spirit of love, mercy, compassion, tolerance, and forgiveness; in other words, by the fruits of the spirit. The question is, what standards does her own holy book say Jesus used to divide the sheep from the goats:

The Sheep and the Goats

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,

36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?

39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,

43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

I note we see no creedal beliefs presented as the standard of entrance into the grace and salvation of our Lord here.

8 What does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

On the way to Judea Jesus was followed by a company of almost fifty of his friends and enemies. At their noon lunchtime, on Wednesday, he talked to his apostles and this group of followers on the "Terms of Salvation," and at the end of this lesson told the parable of the Pharisee and the publican (a tax collector). Said Jesus: "You see, then, that the Father gives salvation to the children of men, and this salvation is a free gift to all who have the faith to receive sonship in the divine family. There is nothing man can do to earn this salvation. Works of self-righteousness cannot buy the favor of God, and much praying in public will not atone for lack of living faith in the heart. Men you may deceive by your outward service, but God looks into your souls. What I am telling you is well illustrated by two men who went into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself: `O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unlearned, unjust, adulterers, or even like this publican. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.' But the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift his eyes to heaven but smote his breast, saying, `God be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you that the publican went home with God's approval rather than the Pharisee, for every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, but he who humbles himself shall be exalted." (1838.2)

Jesus well knew of this form of authoritarian and dogmatic religion, when he said:

"Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You would shut the doors of the kingdom of heaven against sincere men because they happen to be unlearned in the ways of your teaching. You refuse to enter the kingdom and at the same time do everything within your power to prevent all others from entering. You stand with your backs to the doors of salvation and fight with all who would enter therein. (1907.4)

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

What kind of tree brings forth the fruits of division, predudice, and bigotry, and rude ad hominem tu quoque attacks?

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.