I have sincerely never understood the definition of "soul". This concept seems to be common to several religions, surely to all three big monotheistic ones, but to my eyes it still remains somehow obscure.
It appears to be almost the same as the "mind", but with an additional unsupported attribute like "immortality". The soul is the immortal mind.
To me, there is no difference to the old Dualism theory that started with Descartes and is continuing today in the Artificial Intelligence (AI) project. If you believe in the existence of the soul, then you believe that a human being can be divided into hardware and software. And viceversa, probably.
And, of course, software can be made immortal. But where does this "software/soul" come from?
Any comment is more than welcome. Thanks.
PS: Sorry, I am not aware whether a thread like this was already started. Moderators please move it if needed.
The Soul
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McCulloch
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Post #2
So the questions for debate are:
Meanwhile, have a look at these threads for some relevant material:
- Does Soul = Mind? and
- But where does this "software/soul" come from?
Meanwhile, have a look at these threads for some relevant material:
- When God knows a soul goes to hell.. further down the thread there is a discussion about the definition of soul and allegations that science proves the idea of souls' existence.
- To what extent can the immaterial affect the material? which addresses the very existence of immaterial things and what effect they may or may not have on the material universe
- Death/Aging which addresses our immortality, or lack thereof.
- Substance Dualism: True or False ? which addresses the dualistsic philosophy necessary to support the idea that souls exist.
- The eternal soul which discusses whether a soul is eternal, but the debaters seemed to lose interest.
- What Is The Purpose Of A Soul? which carried on for six pages.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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Cathar1950
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Post #3
Good sit reference McCulloch.
Some times I get the threads mixed up. I will be writing in one and hesitate to submit because I was thinking of another. Or ever go back and look for something and it is in the wrong thread.
I am interested in what the souls is and does it exist except as a concept or idea. I know in some Hebrew thought it was the whole person and no real dualism, but a plurality of tribal and nature gods. There was the breath of life which every living creature has and it returned to God.
It seems to me if there is a God it would be related to everything and would remember everything wholly. We are memories of ourselves and seems to make up what we are and our continuity, which maybe a illusion of sorts or at least a memory. Now other divide the human into parts body, mind , soul, what ever and has become part of our culture and language and symbolism. Then there is the question does the universe have a soul as Whitehead and others envisioned .
Sounds like fun to me.
Some times I get the threads mixed up. I will be writing in one and hesitate to submit because I was thinking of another. Or ever go back and look for something and it is in the wrong thread.
I am interested in what the souls is and does it exist except as a concept or idea. I know in some Hebrew thought it was the whole person and no real dualism, but a plurality of tribal and nature gods. There was the breath of life which every living creature has and it returned to God.
It seems to me if there is a God it would be related to everything and would remember everything wholly. We are memories of ourselves and seems to make up what we are and our continuity, which maybe a illusion of sorts or at least a memory. Now other divide the human into parts body, mind , soul, what ever and has become part of our culture and language and symbolism. Then there is the question does the universe have a soul as Whitehead and others envisioned .
Good questions but it could go anywhere. There are so many assumptions we have to make before we can even understand what we are asking.Does Soul = Mind? and
But where does this "software/soul" come from?
Sounds like fun to me.
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juliod
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Post #4
It's pretty simple to me. The "soul" is one of the concepts of religions that do not exist.I have sincerely never understood the definition of "soul". This concept seems to be common to several religions, surely to all three big monotheistic ones, but to my eyes it still remains somehow obscure.
No one has ever see one, so it is a little hard to define it. Or rather, the definition is merely made up. I could say "All souls are green" and it has just as much weight as any other definition proposed by a real theist.
There is no evidence that souls exist. A soul is not necessary to explain any aspect of human behavior, psychology, anatomy, or medicine. You might take "soul" t be a synonym of "mind" or "personality" but theists mean much more by the term than just that.
DanZ
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Cathar1950
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Post #5
Maybe it is like saying the "soul" of a book. The "soul" of the people. It is descriptive. So mind = soul might be fine but what is mind?
When we talk about mind we also have different meanings. Such as a hologram.
When we talk about mind we also have different meanings. Such as a hologram.
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juliod
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Post #6
That's fine, IMHO. It's a metaphorical usage. Like "heart".Maybe it is like saying the "soul" of a book. The "soul" of the people. It is descriptive. So mind = soul might be fine but what is mind?
But that's not what the theists mean. They believe that the soul is a genuine, if immaterial, entity. They are wrong, but get angry when you point that out.
DanZ
Re: The Soul
Post #7Software comes from computer programmers...Alien wrote:But where does this "software/soul" come from?
As a card-carrying member of the A-Team, this is probably why I see the hardware/software analogy as, well, a bit flawed.As to whether or not mind is equivalent to soul, and what is mind, as Cathar1950 queries... I tend to think of mind as a process (or processes) that run(s) on the brain; the sum result of many electrochemical reactions. The yield of such enables me to do many things, such as communicate with others, improvise musically, solve for x using the quadratic formula, recognize passion, irony, anger, and the key of D minor. While the biological and/or electrochemical interactions which are regarded as soul (or mind) may not be entirely understood, I see no evidence that suggests that soul is something distinguishable or transcendental from an individual.
Tersely expressed, where there is a living, functioning brain, there is a mind. When life ceases, so does the mind (and any "soul"). As falls Wichita, so falls Wichita Falls.
Regards,
mrmufin
Wow... I made it all the way through a post on soul with nary a mention of James Brown...
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Cathar1950
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Post #8
I was reading Multifaith Round-up: Views of the Soul Rabbi David Kraemer (Conservative Jewish)
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/163/story_16365_4.html
Where the traditional Jewish idea(one of many) of the soul is the breathing living body. Dying is a process taking a year or more when the flesh is gone they are dead and they rebury the bones.
This ancient view of sleeping with the father did not see a soul as surviving death. From the Maccabees war some time after Persian ideas and Hellenism, the idea of resurrection became needed to fight and die for God. They had the hope(given some interpretations of the prophets) of the bodily resurrection and thus saving the soul(the living breathing body). It certainly non-dualistic.
Now we got bodies, mind, spirit, soul, brain, consciousness and life after death the bible has a lot of options depending on what your reading. Science and psychology, including neurology have opened more doors and deeper understanding, more confusing but hopeful.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/163/story_16365_4.html
Where the traditional Jewish idea(one of many) of the soul is the breathing living body. Dying is a process taking a year or more when the flesh is gone they are dead and they rebury the bones.
This ancient view of sleeping with the father did not see a soul as surviving death. From the Maccabees war some time after Persian ideas and Hellenism, the idea of resurrection became needed to fight and die for God. They had the hope(given some interpretations of the prophets) of the bodily resurrection and thus saving the soul(the living breathing body). It certainly non-dualistic.
Now we got bodies, mind, spirit, soul, brain, consciousness and life after death the bible has a lot of options depending on what your reading. Science and psychology, including neurology have opened more doors and deeper understanding, more confusing but hopeful.
