Is the ACLU anti-religion?

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:53 pm

It has been suggested in many threads (usually by a vocal few) that the
ACLU is anti-religion.

If you cherry-pick the lists of cases they have argued, you could certainly
assemble a damning document, however, if you took into account all the
cases they have argued, a pattern of consistent defence of 1st amendment
rights emerges.

How is this anti-religious?

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:19 pm

The best poison is apllied slowly. You take more lives that way. In fact that is the way ground squirrels are poisoned out west. They take a slow acting poison from ingesting little bits of food that causes them to bleed from their lungs.

To the squirrels it looks like Farmer John is a good guy because he is not blasting away with that big shotgun. Of course Farmer John knows that he will only get a few squirrels with a direct attack

The ACLU is anti-Christian. Look at how many "Christians" support them.

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:29 pm

http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/Re ... 9116&c=139

Here is an example of the opposite of what you are talking about.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:46 pm

The ACLU is anti-Christian. Look at how many "Christians" support them.

WIth all due respect, this is not exactly an objective criteria, even disregarding the fact that you have presented no evidence with respect to how many Christians do or do not suppor the ACLU.

Whether any CHristians support the ACLU or not does not determine the answer to the question, in my view.

Many Christians support environemental organizations like the Sierra Club or the Nature Conservancy. Does this make them Christian organizations? Would they by anti-Christian if a smaller percentage of their supporters were Christian than the percentage of Christians in the population at large?

I think this is another case of some conservative Christians perceiving disagreement on particular positions with animosity or antipathy towards the group. I am certainly open to considering the ACLU's record in an objective way, but from my knowledge of what they have done, they are willing to defend just about anybody on first amendment issues, regardless of their political or religious views. Obviously, they end up representing some controversial groups and individuals, and I think this is why they get a lot of flack.

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:21 pm

I will excuse myself from this thread. There are better lawyers I would go to for help.

And I have absolutely no respect for the ACLU.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:10 pm

On another thread, Shieldaxe posted the following, which is certainly relevant to this discussion. This is a supplement to the information already linked to by Chimp.

The ACLU fights for religious freedom and freedom of speech.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts files a First Amendment lawsuit against the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) for removing subway advertisements promoting the views of a local church and refusing to sell additional advertising space to the church.
http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpee ... 10206&c=42

The American Civil Liberties Union of Texas filed a lawsuit against the city of Pilot Point and its police department, charging that police officers violated an art gallery owners freedom of expression by coercing him to remove a mural depicting the biblical story of Eve.
http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpee ... 17297&c=83

ACLU of New Jersey Successfully Defends Right of Religious Expression by Jurors
http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/Re ... 7237&c=29

The American Civil Liberties Union of Nebraska defends a Presbyterian church from a forced eviction by the city.
http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/Re ... 295&c=142

Please make an honest attempt to get your facts straight before vilifying and libeling an organization that is such a great protector of liberty.

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:33 pm

And like I wrote on that one, why would a Christian use an organization that in one courtroom represents them and across the hall represents The North American Man-Boy Love Association.

It is easier to poison a larger group with slow acting poison. One that tastes good at first I would assume would work the best.

There are plenty of fine Christian (and otherwise) lawyers to use.

ShieldAxe · Post by **ShieldAxe** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:10 pm

AlAyeti wrote:And like I wrote on that one, why would a Christian use an organization that in one courtroom represents them and across the hall represents The North American Man-Boy Love Association.

It is easier to poison a larger group with slow acting poison. One that tastes good at first I would assume would work the best.

There are plenty of fine Christian (and otherwise) lawyers to use.

You don't get what the ACLU is about. You also don't get what free speech is.

from Wikipedia:
The American Civil Liberties Union makes it clear, however, that it does not endorse NAMBLA's objectives. "We've never taken a position that sexual-consent laws are beyond the state's power to legislate," John Reinstein, attorney for the Massachusetts branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, said in 1997. "I've never been able to fathom their position."

It was free speech case. Everyone gets to have free speech. Its one of those absolutes you always talk about. We don't outlaw the bible because it says to kill your kids when they misbehave, do we?

Christians should be thanking the ACLU for protecting their free speech and religious freedon. All people should be thanking them.

Vladd44 · Post by **Vladd44** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:49 pm

Yes,

That insidious free speech and personal liberty poison.....Can't have that now can we?

OFC i do find it difficult to take the position of someone who said they were excusing themselves from the thread a few days ago has to say about the subject very seriously.

Free speech means protecting those who have things to say that we personally find distasteful. In less than 12 hours there is a KKK rally here in austin,tx. While I find them distasteful to the extreme, and their kind would be better suited in other more pro-bush region of the state, I do not want to see their rights abridged.

They are coming to town to show their support for the anti gay marriage act. So I guess things don't really change that much. Good baptist klan boys still vote with what god tells them too.

atheist_infidel0304 · Post by **atheist_infidel0304** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:09 pm

You don't get what the ACLU is about. You also don't get what free speech is.
in 1997. "I've never been able to fathom their position."

It was free speech case. Everyone gets to have free speech. Its one of those absolutes you always talk about. We don't outlaw the bible because it says to kill your kids when they misbehave, do we?

Christians should be thanking the ACLU for protecting their free speech and religious freedon. All people should be thanking them.

Excellent point, the ACLU is a staunch supporter of free speech. A lot of times, people don't look at the context of what hte ACLU does in representing such groups as NAMBLA in cases. But if you look down the line, even groups that oppose the ACLU's existence(the KKK) you will see that the ACLU has even defended them a time or two!(i.e.-Skokie)