God cannot be all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing

Post by **otseng** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:15 am

It's getting kinda quiet from all the atheists, so I'm going to help it along.

Here's one argument I've heard from atheists on why God doesn't exist.

Christians acknowledge that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving. But there exists many problems in the world today. And many quite serious problems. If God is all-knowing and sees all these problems and all-loving and doesn't want these problems to exist, then it's not all-powerful since it allows the problems to exist.

Or if it knows all these problems and is all-powerful, then it is not all-loving since the problems exist.

Therefore God cannot be all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing. Consequently, God cannot exist.

Post by **otseng** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:36 am

CanadianBuddhist wrote:Ok I'll rephrase. How can you say that your god cares or even exists when all of your evidence comes from the works of man. Have you no examples from your own personal experience?

God cares for me and has given me life, free-will, family, freedom, beauty of nature, friends, food, a good job, a good church, and the Internet.

CanadianBuddhist · Post by **CanadianBuddhist** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:39 pm

How can you say that all of these come from god? What reason do you have to believe that god gave yu these things? God gave you life? I'm sure that was your parents. god gave you free will? Your mind makes you capable of free will. god gave you freedom? That's the government that gives you freedom, there are many countries whose people have anything but freedom. Beauty of nature? The Earth creates nature, nature comes from the earth and the earth exists because of a series of causes and conditions. Friends? I'm pretty sure no one GAVE you them, YOU met them. Food? You buy your own food don't you? A good job? You are the one who went out and got the job aren't you? A good church? I know god didn't build that. The internet? I don't think anyone in the world would say god is the creater of the internet. how do you know that it was the christian god anyway, who did these things? Why not Allah, or Ra, or Enlil, or Enki, or any other god? There is no All-supreme god that is a being with a serparate existence that guides our lives. If so he shows much favoritism which I would think would be beyond such a being.

Post by **otseng** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:25 am

All I'll say in response is that God is the ultimate source of everything. Without God, we wouldn't have anything. But, again, I don't want to stray too far from the topic.

CanadianBuddhist · Post by **CanadianBuddhist** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:42 am

If there is a god in the christian sense, then he cannot be all loving because if he was he wouldn't show favoritism. Why are there people starving, being tortured, dying painfully, while others have nice long lives, die naturally, and have very few hardships? I refer you to my signature

Post by **otseng** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:08 am

CanadianBuddhist wrote:If there is a god in the christian sense, then he cannot be all loving because if he was he wouldn't show favoritism.
Why are there people starving, being tortured, dying painfully, while others have nice long lives, die naturally, and have very few hardships? I refer you to my signature

How is the fact that people are having problems mean that God is showing favoritism? Are you implying that God is causing these things to happen to people? Or even implying that God is not causing these for some? I don't believe that is true in either case.

CanadianBuddhist · Post by **CanadianBuddhist** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:59 am

No I am stating that there is no god.

jtls1986 · Post by **jtls1986** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:18 pm

CanadianBuddhist wrote:No I am stating that there is no god.

If you believe that there is no God...then please enlighten us on how you believe that this entire universe originated. No, I will not allow you to simply so the Big Bang, I would like you to explain how the Big Bang was to have originated from and the origins of which the particles that creates the matter to have created the molecules to have initiated the reactions that starts the Big Bang.

jtls1986 · Post by **jtls1986** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:29 pm

CanadianBuddhist wrote:If there is a god in the christian sense, then he cannot be all loving because if he was he wouldn't show favoritism. Why are there people starving, being tortured, dying painfully, while others have nice long lives, die naturally, and have very few hardships?

This reason that there is hardship in this world is because of sin. How did sin come to this world if God was all loving? Its because God gave everything He created free will. The angels that exist with God (believe it or not) has free will

. The being known as Satan was supposedly a very powerful and high-ranking angel. Eventually, he began thinking that his power actually exceeds God (this is impossible since the created obviously cannot be more powerful than the creator). After Satan's downfall, sin was then possible as soon as the person known as Adam disobeyed God's command and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

You may say that one person should pay for his sins not mine and I should be sinless. However, can you think back on your life and declare that you have been perfect from the beginning of your infancy? I doubt it.

Abs like J' · Post by **Abs like J'** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:34 am

The Riddle of Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

jtls1986 wrote:This reason that there is hardship in this world is because of sin. How did sin come to this world if God was all loving? Its because God gave everything He created free will. The angels that exist with God (believe it or not) has free will . The being known as Satan was supposedly a very powerful and high-ranking angel. Eventually, he began thinking that his power actually exceeds God (this is impossible since the created obviously cannot be more powerful than the creator). After Satan's downfall, sin was then possible as soon as the person known as Adam disobeyed God's command and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The ancient riddle seems to be the basis for this topic and from your current position, it would seem that your suggestion is that god is limited by the principle of free will within his creation. Did free will inhibit him from stopping evil? Was he able, but not willing? Or, as the riddle goes, was he neither able or willing?

jtls1986 · Post by **jtls1986** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:33 pm

Abs like J' wrote:Did free will inhibit him from stopping evil? Was he able, but not willing? Or, as the riddle goes, was he neither able or willing?

Well, if God decided to simply stop evil and not have allowed all of these things to have happened, wouldn't that mean God is a tyrant? Then He might as well have created mechanical beings that served His every need and whim. However, God does not want to have created mindless drones that serve Him; instead, He created beings that would voluntarily serve Him and actually enjoy it. Free will did not inhibit Him, instead, a plan was set in motion once evil was introduced to have saved mankind and that plan revolved around Jesus Christ. His sacrifice was to cleanse everyone from their sin, through that, people may come to know Jesus and realize the magnitude of His sacrifice. In the end, when Jesus returns, evil will be put away and never to be allowed to be released again. The reason Jesus has not returned is because He is giving time for people to still believe in Him so that they may all be able to enter the Kingdom of God.