Pride

[Corvus]

Is it bad? Why or why not?

[McCulloch]

First of all, in order to understand pride, we should avoid using our mind. It might sound strange, what else is there to use, right? Well, there is this word Consciousness, which we often forget about.

What is this Consciousness? Is it like the christian concept of soul, which seems to be devoid of objective meaning?

In order to use our Consciousness and not our mind, we should observe ourselves from moment to moment.

With what do you envision that we observe ourselves? Our minds?

We should observe our thoughts, emotions and even motor functions of our physical body without getting identified with them.

Yes, you seem to want us to not use our minds by observing our thoughts, emotions and motor functions. I know of no other way to "observe" my thoughts and emotions except with my mind. You have another way?

We shouldn't identify ourselves with pride when it comes, we should remain aware of ourselves and simply observe it. This way we will see pride for what it really is and not what we want it to be. Pride is not some concept, it is not a theory to think about, it is not an idea, it is something real.

Pride is not an idea, concept or theory. It is something real. How is it measured? Where is it? How does someone objectively detect it? If you cannot answer these questions, you will have problems supporting the idea that pride is something real.

...

It is very simple to realize that we're asleep psychologically speaking. There is no need to believe or disbelieve in this statement, we can prove it for ourselves by trying to be aware of ourselves (our thoughts, emotions and the environment around us) without interruptions, and we will see that we simply cannot do it.

Maybe I missed something. Didn't you just tell us that we should observe ourselves? Now you are saying that we cannot. You've got me confused.

A thought will rise up, then another thought, then some emotion, then another thought, and then we will remember that we were supposed to be observing ourselves.
...
Mind is the author of all justifications, there is no truth in mind. If we want to know the truth, we should learn how to observe ourselves with Consciousness, how not to "fall asleep in the middle of the day", how not to get identified with any sensation. This is something very difficult to do, but it is absolutely necessary if any type of spiritual development is what we want.

You may have noticed, I am a skeptic. Science teaches that the way to truth is to objectively test hypotheses. But you are saying that the way to truth is to ignore mind and observe ourselves. I really have no clue what you mean by that.

And this applies not only to pride, but to all of the 7 capital sins and the legions of egos behind them. So if you want to know and understand what's right and what's wrong, do not think.

How can I even understand what you are saying if I stop thinking? How can our conclusions be tested if we all stop thinking? I think (like old Rene Descartes, I really cannot stop) that I must be completely missing something that you are trying to convey.

[JanisL]

Hi, McCulloch,

What is this Consciousness? Is it like the christian concept of soul, which seems to be devoid of objective meaning?

Your mind wants to understand what Consciousness is, but it is not capable to do that. If you want to know what Consciousness is, you should practice awareness or self-observation. Consciousness is activated when we're trying to be aware of ourselves and of our surroundings, when it is activated this way, then you hava a chance to know what it is, if you think about it, then you don't hava a chance to know what it is. For an example, you might know (with your mind) that you are sitting in a chair, but that doesn't mean that you are observing the chair, in which case you Consciousness is not active at that moment, only your mind.

With what do you envision that we observe ourselves? Our minds?

We simply observe ourselves, when we try to think with what we should observe ourselves then we are not observing ourselves, we are thinking. Do you see then how your own mind is in your way? When you look at an apple you don't always think about that apple, yet you know that it is an apple.

Yes, you seem to want us to not use our minds by observing our thoughts, emotions and motor functions. I know of no other way to "observe" my thoughts and emotions except with my mind. You have another way?

Do not think with what to observe, just observe. I suppose you have some understanding of the word "observe", so simply try it. If you pay attention, you can recognise when you daydream, when you fantasise, when you think, right? In these states we do not observe ourselves, so when you recognise that you're doing one of these, come back in the moment (present), try to be here and now, observe what thoughts come up in your mind, what emotions, do not label them with your mind, just observe.

Pride is not an idea, concept or theory. It is something real. How is it measured? Where is it? How does someone objectively detect it? If you cannot answer these questions, you will have problems supporting the idea that pride is something real.

If I cannot answer these questions, it means that your mind will not get any answers. And it is not my intention to build theories on which we can dwell and do nothing, my intention is to encourage people to practice awareness from moment to moment, to meditate and silence the mind and this way experience that we can precieve reality also when our mind is not active.

Maybe I missed something. Didn't you just tell us that we should observe ourselves? Now you are saying that we cannot. You've got me confused.

I'm sorry about the confusion. I wrote this way so it would sound more dramatic I guess . But either way it is true, we (most of us) cannot stay in awareness WITHOUT INTERRUPTIONS (which is identification with thought or emotion, or any sensation) FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. But if we cannot do it now, that doesn't mean that by trying we cannot develop this ability. It simply takes a lot of practice.

You may have noticed, I am a skeptic. Science teaches that the way to truth is to objectively test hypotheses. But you are saying that the way to truth is to ignore mind and observe ourselves. I really have no clue what you mean by that.

I'll try to explain. If I tell you that I am an alian, will you believe me? Hopefully not But you believe/accept (as I understand) that what science teaches is right. But on what basis? And on what basis you don't believe that I am an alian? It is just a belief. Read this thing and you will see that it's true (even if you're thinking about it):
"No matter with how sophisticated concept our mind can come up with, there will always be an opposing concept, which will be just as brilliant."
That is because mind can only work in duality, good and bad etc.

How can I even understand what you are saying if I stop thinking? How can our conclusions be tested if we all stop thinking? I think (like old Rene Descartes, I really cannot stop) that I must be completely missing something that you are trying to convey.

When you read this, you think, no doubt about it. And I wrote that the way to gain real understanding of something with our Consciousness, we should practice awareness, self-observation, meditation. So now you know how can you understand what I'm saying. If you put it in practice, then you will not need to think of some things that I have said, because you would have an actual experience of thoes things. When I say that it hurts if you put your finger into fire, do you have to think weather it is so or not? I don't think so, because you have an experience of this already.

So you see how complicated things can become if we let our mind to think about them aimlessly?

If you want to know how it is like when one has no thought in his mind, what will you do to know this? Will you think about it, will you think how it's like? No, you will try to silence your mind with whatever tools you know of at that moment.

So I encourage people to do something that rarely who does and benefit from doing so. You will not know what it is, how it's like, what benefits there are if you don't do that. Doing that doesn't require any point of view of your mind, because mind is not used in this practise. It might be active, but we still continue to observe, and it is done with Consciousness, which is seperate from mind. The books I posted previously explain it much better, but they are not to be read just intellectually. If you want to understand what's written in those books, you should put it in practice, you should experience it.

[lifeisboring]

Is it bad? Why or why not?

Depends on the situation of course. Pride could make you make the wrong decisions. But then again, no one wants to be humiliated. Pride makes you try to prevent that.