Should atheists be banned from marriage?

[bernee51]

Opponents of gay marriage are largely motivated by their firm belief that such unions are displeasing to God and that only divinely-approved marriages should be permitted.

How long will it be, however, before they start fighting for other kinds of limits on civil marriages based upon their beliefs about what their god wants?

Should atheists be allowed to marry?

[juliod]

So why don't Christians lobby for marriage exclusive from athiests? Against divorce? Sex before marriage? If you are going to be oppressive enough to want to enforce your views on others, at least be consistent, right?

Good points all around. What we seem to have is a lack of consistency in the christian view.

Why do churches defer to the secular government on issues related to marriage and family? This is one area where they lcearly have a right to authority in an important aspect of society.

DanZ

[AlAyeti]

Curious that Christians do not seek to ban divorce or pre-marital sex. All this attention devoted to those evil gays. God forbid we focus on the real problems with society.

Christians decry divorce and pre-marital sex in the exact manner as redefining marriage and family. What planet do you live on?

The real problems are sexual licentiousness and sexual hedonism and the destruction of the family wrought by sexually perverse people.

Is there any doubt that Bernee's little sidebar issue (thread) was really about homosexuality?

The belief that gays are "discusting" is the most prevalent reasoning I see. I got to talking about gay mairrage with this girl at my church once. I Argued that Christians have no right to impose their beliefs on the unbelieving populace. She agreed with that point, but still kept to her anti-gay view, arguing that she does not want her children growing up around such "nasty" individuals.

Frankly, I find homosexuality sickening as well. Likewise, they may find my orientation unappealing. Does this give either side the right to discriminate? Christ would have us respect ones individual decisions (albeit not necissarily approve of them).

It is not that homosexuals are disgusting. It is that children are the products of male/female sexual unions and that is an immutable fact. Is that a bigoted opinion or 100% biological fact? So what Christian would ban opposite sex people from marrying. And what Christian would want them to divorce? None. It is unbelieveable that any sane person cannot see the truth of the Bible is what is happening to our world?

Indeed children are suffering in the exact manner described in Ezekiel. Even far worse. The sexually depraved in their hautiness doing what they do. Again!

How about the mental health of the developing human brain inside all of those children? Hasn't the failure of dysfunctional families and the foster placement industry been proven over and over?

There is no stopping this madness from taking hold. With the resulting illness to society. Christians should start looking out for the inevitable fallout.

Christians are consistent in that they warn society of the evils of divorce and sexual depravity. And they are 100% correct. A trip downtown at night or to the local juvenile hall will validate the evidence.

Our society is so violent now we are at the place where you can barely walk the streets at night.

I'm thinking that the Anti-Christ may very well be raised by same-sex "parents." What will flow through the mind of a person that loathes Christians as a condition of an upbringing challenged every moment of every day as "not normal?" That they hold Biblical marriage and morality as sacred will be completely intolerable to a child that has to live in a world that constantly challenges the time-honored household as "the way it should be." Normal parents and families are not the intolerant ones.

Barring atheists from marrying each other is not sought by Christians if the atheists are a biological couple designed to have children. That would of course mean a man and a woman. It is unbelieveable (yet predicted) that the world would be at this place in time but we are.

Pretty simple logic and certainly not a bigoted view.

[Dilettante]

bernee51 wrote:

Opponents of gay marriage are largely motivated by their firm belief that such unions are displeasing to God and that only divinely-approved marriages should be permitted.

That's simply not true in my country. There are plenty of atheists who are against same-sex marriage.

[juliod]

Christians are consistent in that they warn society of the evils of divorce and sexual depravity.

But the question is why do churches not ban divorce within their own congregations?

Why do churches defer to the secular government on divorce?

How do you feel about my plan to return power over marriage to the churches?

DanZ

[AlAyeti]

But the question is why do churches not ban divorce within their own congregations?

Why do churches defer to the secular government on divorce?

How do you feel about my plan to return power over marriage to the churches?

DanZ

The question (though disingenous) is whether atheists should be banned from marrying. Male and female atheists? That's what marriage IS.

I don't know of any churches that perform divorces. But I have not been to alot of places in Massachusetts.

I also do not see Churches celebrating adulterers with special marriage ceremonies that contradict the scriptures they preach.

If or when I become ordained, I would have no problem joining the union of two atheists of the opposite sex.

The Christian view on individual human rights is that anyone and indeed everyone, can repent and be returned to the fold.

How open-minded.

[juliod]

If or when I become ordained, I would have no problem joining the union of two atheists of the opposite sex.

Really? I find that extraordinary. Why do you favor people who disagree with all of your doctrine over those who may disagree with only one part? Why isn't that blasphemous to marry atheists?

What about Wiccan? Would you marry heterosexual wiccans? Would it be OK if they wanted to sing praises to their demon lord during the ceremony?

I don't know of any churches that perform divorces

Yet every church you've attended or visited has allowed their members to divorce. Why is that?

DanZ

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Christians decry divorce and pre-marital sex in the exact manner as redefining marriage and family. What planet do you live on?

I am not seeing any Christian movements attempting to make divorce or pre-marital sex illegal.

Gays are being singled out. It is discrimination by definition.

James 2:9
If you favor one person over another, you're sinning, and this law convicts you of being disobedient.

The real problems are sexual licentiousness and sexual hedonism and the destruction of the family wrought by sexually perverse people.

The sexual perverse. Of what orientation is this group primarily comprised of?

Heterosexual. This is the prevalent sexual preference, after all.

Yet curiously, gays are the choice target of those wishing to weed out licentiousness. Interesting indeed. Do you really not see intolerance as the leading factor?

How about the mental health of the developing human brain inside all of those children? Hasn't the failure of dysfunctional families and the foster placement industry been proven over and over?

And this is the cause of homosexuality?

Our society is so violent now we are at the place where you can barely walk the streets at night.

Gays are to blame for this?



We seem to have a regular scapegoat on our hands. Even hurricane Katrina was the homosexual's fault.

I am all for solving the problems of licentiousness, violence, and dysfunctional families. But I fail to see how blatantly discriminating against gays will solve anything.

The problems you mentioned existed in past and present societies where no homosexual dared to subsist. Can they really be the stem of the problem? Granted, they certainly do not help in the area of sexual hedonism, but are they the only problem? Or even the predominant one?

Barring atheists from marrying each other is not sought by Christians if the atheists are a biological couple designed to have children. That would of course mean a man and a woman. It is unbelieveable (yet predicted) that the world would be at this place in time but we are.

I am afraid I still see an inconsistancy. The idea that marriage is a biblical institution is the leading argument Christians place against gay marriage. Yet the Bible certainly does not support athiest marriage.

Therefore, by the same logic, athiests should not be allowed to marry.




[/i]

[AlAyeti]

P-P,

There is desperation in your rebuttals.

I am not seeing any Christian movements attempting to make divorce or pre-marital sex illegal.

This assertion is wrong. Christian churches most certainly have movments against divorce within and without the church. Divorce was made absolutley easy by the law. Christians obey the law. You will see this when homosexuals rudely impose their ways on good Churhces. No decent Bible believing Chuch that I know of celebrates divorce as a human right and promotes the membership to embrace it.

Do you?

Christian were pushed aside by the same sexual hedonists that are licensing same-sex marriage.

When it becomes the law of the land, Christians will sadly have to cow tow to secualrist insanity once again.

I consistenly equate homosexual sexual behavior to staright licentious hedonism no matter the sex partners.

Gays are being singled out. It is discrimination by definition.

This is incorrect as well.

Homosexuals are invading marriage and have no right to do so. Jesus and the consistent history of human civilization agree that marriage is for family and family is man-woman-children.

You need to see the truth.

James 2:9
If you favor one person over another, you're sinning, and this law convicts you of being disobedient.

I hope you know the history of Christianity?

Everyone should be welcomed into the Church. Unless, they want to teach false doctrine. Or, unless they do not want to repent.

Any "Promise Keepers" movements in the LGBT (and Questioning Youth) "Culture and community?" Or is the use of condoms and softer dildos their idea of a change in the condition of the sinner?

You have heard of the doctrine of Repentance?

Don't hear much of that in Liberal Churches do we?

You have read the Epistles haven't you?

One quote does not a doctrine make.

Yet curiously, gays are the choice target of those wishing to weed out licentiousness. Interesting indeed. Do you really not see intolerance as the leading factor?

Any adulterers use the defense of a congenital condition to escape repentance?

Are divorcees born to divorce? Though I'm sure the APA will find a way to give them this excuse.

Christians can not tolerate those that will not repent. That, IS a doctrine from cover to cover.

Let secularists unlease the attack on marriage and family. Jesus was clear on the position that His followers were to take on mariage, divorce and children.

This is wrong too:

The problems you mentioned existed in past and present societies where no homosexual dared to subsist. Can they really be the stem of the problem? Granted, they certainly do not help in the area of sexual hedonism, but are they the only problem? Or even the predominant one?

I started the thread on Sodom, Greece and Rome. I believe that homosexuals dwelled historicaaly in those open and immense civilizations quite easily and certainly were not "subsisting." Again, I don't traet homosexuals any differently than I do Liberals or sexual hedonists or pedophiles.

Interesting that Greece and Rome tried to restrict sexual licentiousness. Augustus (the Son of Deity) tried in vain to stop the madness he knew would eventaully kill the Roman Empire.

The Greeks outlawed pederasts (homosexuals) from going into school gyms. Man will we be seeing the return of those points of view in the future, after the madness of what is happening takes its inevitable root.

I am afraid I still see an inconsistancy. The idea that marriage is a biblical institution is the leading argument Christians place against gay marriage. Yet the Bible certainly does not support athiest marriage.

Therefore, by the same logic, athiests should not be allowed to marry.

OK. Far be it from me to embrace inconsistency. Will you stop them from having children too?

[AlAyeti]

Dan ol' buddy. . .

Quote:
If or when I become ordained, I would have no problem joining the union of two atheists of the opposite sex.


Really? I find that extraordinary. Why do you favor people who disagree with all of your doctrine over those who may disagree with only one part? Why isn't that blasphemous to marry atheists?

When they accepet Christ, their family would be intact. Just what Jesus would want.

What about Wiccan? Would you marry heterosexual wiccans? Would it be OK if they wanted to sing praises to their demon lord during the ceremony?

How does Wicca defer all that much from Christianty? Nothing came into existence without Jesus. Wiccans worship the craeted for sure but just a little logic and they will see the Creator and that means Jesus and salvation for them and their families. If I was a Pator, I would seek to convert people. Wiccans are great people from what I glean from their faith statements.

Quote:
I don't know of any churches that perform divorces


Yet every church you've attended or visited has allowed their members to divorce. Why is that?

DanZ

You don't know much about churches. No Churches that I know of outside of Massachusetts and Frisco, or maybe Oregon, celebrates divorce as diversity. What Church "could allow" their members to divorce?

And how can they that are divorced find their way back into the Church?

They repent.

Jesus told his disciples to forgive a brother forever. But the brother must meet with the person he wronged and admit the fault.

Remember, adulterers do not have a built in excuse of being born to be an adulterer. At least not yet.

Any "Promise Keepers" movements in the LGBT (and Questioning Youth) community?

Revival coming to that culture?

First repentance . . . then revival.

The Great Awakening!

Revival means to bring back to life, which means that the person was dead in their sins. Now, any homosexuals willing to come forward in those Liberal Churches and repent of their wickedness and sinfulness? Or, are they not asked to repent, AND, go and sin no more?

I do not mind teaching you Christianty. I have come to respect your positions greatly.

[Bugmaster]

How does Wicca defer all that much from Christianty? Nothing came into existence without Jesus. Wiccans worship the craeted for sure but just a little logic and they will see the Creator and that means Jesus and salvation for them and their families.

Oooh, so close and yet so far...

Disclaimer: I am not a Wiccan. Any Wiccans on this board, feel free to correct me.

As far as I know, Wiccans are not monotheists. This means that, according to Wiccans, the Judeo-Christian God (Jesus, YHVH, Allah) is a myth. Instead, Wiccans worship a variety of gods; notably the Earth Mother (an anthropomorphic personification of our planet and the feminine aspect) and the Horned God (her male aspect counterpart). Many Wiccans also worship forest spirits, the Ancient Greek pantheon, totems, and other things.

The primary rule of Wicca is the Rule of Three: whatever you do -- good or bad -- will come back to you threefold, and in this life, not the next. The secondary rule of Wicca is, "and if harm none, do what ye will" -- a direct consequence of the Rule of Three.

Interestingly enough, the central focus of Wicca is not on worhip, but on spellcasting. Wiccans believe that they can affect reality by will alone (or, at least, by brewing potions and reciting incantations). They believe that they have the power to make plants grow, heal injuries, protect others from bodily harm, etc.; this power may derive from their gods, or it may be innate to each Wiccan; opinions vary on that one. Obviously, Wiccans also have the power to inflict harm, but, according to the Rule of Three, it would be stupid of them to do so.

In general, Wiccans have a great respect and admiration for nature; many of them are vegetarians or vegans, because they feel eating meat is unethical. Many important Wiccan rites (and their major spellcasting rituals) occur in natural surroundings, such as parks and forests.

So... which part of this is even remotely similar to Christianity ?