The Gay agenda

[lastcallhall]

This is an article from Jim Daly on Foxnews and it looks like what a few of us conservative christians believe is the gay agenda moving forward to get marriage passed.

I am, naturally, personally opposed to the legalization of same-sex marriage for the simple but profound reason that it violates and contradicts the sacred text of the Bible, which I believe to be true and inspired. But on what basis should I expect people who dont believe as I do to likewise oppose same-sex marriage?

On the basis of logic, reason, common sense and the fact that preservation of traditional marriage is in the best interest of the common good, as evidenced by any number of factors, including reams of social science data and thousands of years of history.

Any discussion on the definition of marriage incites strong emotional reaction. And those of us within the orthodox Christian community understand that many in the culture see this issue very differently, and hold to very passionate views on the subject. We understand that on this matter, in some circles, that never the twain shall meet. Nevertheless, this difference of opinion does not preclude us the privilege of championing a principle we hold dear, especially since its our Christian faith that motivates us to support and defend what we believe to be Gods blueprint for human relationship. In the last half-century, progressives have exercised their own rights of cultural engagement, aggressively championing sweeping cultural changes on numerous levels. Although we may disagree with them, we certainly dont begrudge them the right to engage the process. But in this pursuit to redefine marriage, wouldnt it make sense to consider the outcomes of prior social reengineering efforts?

In the late 1960s, no-fault divorce promised to simplify, streamline and decrease the contentiousness surrounding marital breakup. Instead, it only encouraged struggling spouses to throw in the towel. Fathers abandoned their families in droves. Poverty levels skyrocketed. Prison populations increased at dramatic levels, a consequence of kids now growing up without a father in the home.

A few years later, in 1973, the Supreme Court legalized abortion in all 50 states. Supporters heralded a new era of responsibility, where every child would be a wanted child. Tragically, over 48 million babies have now been aborted and the beauty of life has been cheapened as a result, while child abuse has skyrocketed.

The expansion of welfare promised to alleviate human suffering. While in some ways noble in intent, it disincentivized work, undermined the family unit and created a perpetual cycle of dependency and poverty. Fathers were no longer needed to be an integral part of the family.

Cohabitation is yet another experiment which promised to liberate couples from the burden of marriage. The number of couples living together outside of marriage has increased ten-fold between 1960 and 2000. Over 12 million unmarried partners now live together in the United States. The result? Cohabitation not only decreases a persons appetite for marriage, it also increases the risk of divorce, should the couple ever tie the knot.

Further, a home with two unmarried partners has proven to be the most dangerous place for children in the U.S. Children who live with their mother and boyfriend are 11 times more likely to be sexually, physically, or emotionally abused than children living with their married biological parents.

In each example of social reengineering Ive noted, progressives promised good things. Sadly, the exact opposite has happened. However well-meaning the motivation, reengineering what God has designed is not only unwise, but radical and dangerous, too.

Without evidence of success to which to point, supporters of these ill-fated ventures are left with but one choice: If you cant change unfavorable outcomes, you change the minds of people as to what is considered favorable and good.

Here lies the last great frontier and the last gasp for those determined to re-engineer marriage. Those committed to this form of radicalism have systematically broken down the cultural barrier to same sex marriage by desensitizing people on the issue, stigmatizing those who oppose the movement and potentially criminalizing anyone who stands in opposition to them. The irony in our cultural discussion currently, is if you support traditional marriage, you are the one perceived by the cultural elite to be the radical.

Consider the case of a New Mexico couple who own and operate a photography business. When they kindly refused to shoot a lesbian marriage ceremony, they were summarily brought up on human rights violations by the New Mexico Human Rights Commission. They were fined for not accepting the job. While on the other hand, Christian organizations are now being singled out and suppliers are threatening to no longer supply them with critical support functions like computer technology because of their stand in opposition to same-sex marriage. Those in favor of same-sex marriage do not see the contradiction in these two examples. One group must perform the services and is fined for not doing so (in the name of human rights); the other is allowed to default on their contract because of alleged bigoted behavior on the part of the religious organization (with no regard for religious expression).

If religious liberty is lost in America, we will cease to be the nation our Founders intended us to be. Our rights will no longer be derived from God but from man, and therefore, dangerously beholden to political despots. I dont think Thomas Jefferson intended that to be the outcome for our great nation when he wrote the famous Danbury Baptist Church letter which mentioned the separation of church and state. Contrary to conventional wisdom, President Jefferson was expressing a concern that the church needed to be protected from the state, not the state from the church. It appears his fears are now being realized.

Jim Daly is president and host of "Focus on the Family."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/05/ ... z1NJdkc5AN


The questions I have for debate are:

1. Is what happened to the New Mexico couple proof that gay marriage will threaten christians and the church from living our faith?

2. If gay marriage is legal in the entire US would churches be forced to recognize gay couples and be forced to hire gay people to positions even if that would be against our beliefs?

[Clownboat]

Let's start with #5 for now:
5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not make blanket statements that are not supportable by logic/evidence.

everything I posted is logical..
I am the experiment itself...

Adam in his transgression made homosexuality; just like murder and every sin under the sun....

I supplied evidence that says there could not have been an Adam or an Eve. You, an un-supported claim only.

Adam was a god..even as I am now

Adam made homosexuals..

God makes new creatures by the faith of Jesus Christ...

he has given them only this life..which comes from Adam..

I am rivers of living water as in john 7;37-39 ... I drank from this well. literally it is my direct connection to Jesus..

not a single Christian in all of Europe during the Crusades had this..not a single one... doubtful even at Muhammad's time

and BTW Jesus' claims are supported by the very Spirit that raised him from the dead which abides in me to this day

I am simply a witness of his resurrection

The Kingdom of God has always depended on words

when he (God) adopted me

I have shown, with only quotes from you from the last 2 pages, that your standards of logic are unacceptable, and do not conform to forum rules. This leads me to doubt your integrity and credibility (as well as some other things).

[Jester]

Moderator Comment

it is the Holy Spirit Himself, who collaborates my words.

This site is intended for debate. That is, it is based on what can be shown with logic and evidence.
This, by our definitions, would be preaching - which is not appropriate for this site.

Please review the Rules and decide if you wish to debate, or to seek out a place where preaching is allowed.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

[John 11:25-26]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/10/pe ... latestnews

This article is an example of this agenda, in my opinion. This is an attempt to indoctrinate children into accepting this lifestyle and is not appropriate for a childrens program. This article shows how far the homosexual community is going to have same sex marriage accepted by all like it or not.

Thanks

[Wyvern]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/10/pe ... latestnews

This article is an example of this agenda, in my opinion. This is an attempt to indoctrinate children into accepting this lifestyle and is not appropriate for a childrens program. This article shows how far the homosexual community is going to have same sex marriage accepted by all like it or not.

Thanks

You will be happy to know then that the producers of the show have released a statement that the pair will not get married because they are not homosexual or even sexual in any way because they are puppets. It's a sad state of affairs when people need to be reminded that puppets don't have a sexual orientation.

[SailingCyclops]

This article is an example of this agenda, in my opinion.

Ahhhh yes. Fox news. Did you know that Fox news' lies prevent them from being broadcast in Canada? Canada has a law, similar to our now defunct "truth in broadcasting" law, which forbids a news broadcaster from lying. See: Fox News' Lies Keep Them Out of Canada. Exposing your children and yourself to lying propaganda is not mentally healthy, nor is it good for our republic.

You might want to consider that when making decisions about what you and your children expose yourselves to on TV.

What agenda? Gay marriage is now legal here in NY, and in 13 other states, and it will be universal someday. What is wrong with exposing children to the realities they will undoubtedly encounter in their adult life? On the flip-side is the question of whether it is proper for a parent to brain-wash a child into a belief before it is old enough to make up it's own mind. While It may be perfectly OK for an adult parent to be a bigot, to believe that interracial, inter-religious, or gay marriage is "wrong", it is not OK to make bigots of their children. It would be just as wrong as turning them into pedophiles. It's a form of child abuse.

The reality of the situation is, like it or not, that gay marriage is now part of our acceptable social structure, it is normal, as is interracial marriage. Human rights have finally been extended to gay people, like they were extended to African American people. The only "agenda" here is our American tradition, and history, of equality, freedom, and equal rights for all. Something you have a right to reject, but in my opinion have no right indoctrinating your children against, or imposing on the rest of us. That would be un-American, and fascist to the core.

This article shows how far the homosexual community is going to have same sex marriage accepted by all like it or not.

It is already "accepted" by a majority 53% of our population. (see:A majority of Americans support gay marriage in poll) It doesn't matter in the least if you like it or not, the same way it wouldn't matter if you didn't like your child marrying someone of a different race or different religion. Thankfully, we have grown beyond these ignorant prejudices. If you believe in democracy, in the rule by the majority, then you can not, in good concience oppose this without being anti-democratic.

If you object so strongly, you can always put your children into a parochial school, where they can be fed propaganda contrary to public opinion and scientific fact. As for me, an atheist with no children, I strongly object to paying my taxes in order to indoctrinate YOUR children in what is clearly bigotry and superstition.

We are evolving beyond this nonsense, get used to it.

Bob

[SailingCyclops]

It's a sad state of affairs when people need to be reminded that puppets don't have a sexual orientation.

It's even sadder when homophobic people feel threatened by the possibility of puppets getting married. Talk about sexual identity insecurity! It seems that the most vociferous anti-gay proponents turn out to be gay themselves, ala Ted Haggard.
[center][youtube][/youtube][/center]
I always wonder if those who are so fanatically anti-gay, are themselves gay. It does seem to be a pattern.

Bob

[Scotracer]

It's a sad state of affairs when people need to be reminded that puppets don't have a sexual orientation.

It's even sadder when homophobic people feel threatened by the possibility of puppets getting married. Talk about sexual identity insecurity! It seems that the most vociferous anti-gay proponents turn out to be gay themselves, ala Ted Haggard.
[center][youtube][/youtube][/center]
I always wonder if those who are so fanatically anti-gay, are themselves gay. It does seem to be a pattern.

Bob

Abstract
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

*ahem*

It's okay, guys, just come out of the closet...it's a lot more fun that way

[Autodidact]

It is Paul that said that Satan is the god of this world..with that being true, it would mean that when Adam was in the garden of Eden, that Satan robbed him of his right of ownership of the earth...because God had given that to man.
so Adam was a god..even as I am now..but that's another story ..the point is Adam's fallen nature came upon all mankind, and every person became subject to the nature and character of Satan, whose power and hold is still upon mankind through the nature of our flesh; which is at enmity with God..which is why Jesus came and demanded that we crucify our own flesh (it's affections and lusts) to be re-generated by the power of the holy Spirit...

Superstitious thinking makes me sad.

[Autodidact]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/10/pe ... latestnews

This article is an example of this agenda, in my opinion. This is an attempt to indoctrinate children into accepting this lifestyle and is not appropriate for a childrens program. This article shows how far the homosexual community is going to have same sex marriage accepted by all like it or not.

Thanks

Why is it not appropriate for a children's program? Are weddings not something children should know about?

[John 11:25-26]

This article is an example of this agenda, in my opinion.

Ahhhh yes. Fox news. Did you know that Fox news' lies prevent them from being broadcast in Canada? Canada has a law, similar to our now defunct "truth in broadcasting" law, which forbids a news broadcaster from lying. See: Fox News' Lies Keep Them Out of Canada. Exposing your children and yourself to lying propaganda is not mentally healthy, nor is it good for our republic.

You might want to consider that when making decisions about what you and your children expose yourselves to on TV.

Hi Bob, thanks for the response. Do you have any specific examples of Fox News lying? I find them very credible, they often have liberals and conservatives on to debate each subject and it is usually a good debate. I have found the mainstream media like Dan Rather with Mr. Bush has been shown to lie. I watch Fox but I get my truth from King Jesus.

What agenda? Gay marriage is now legal here in NY, and in 13 other states, and it will be universal someday. What is wrong with exposing children to the realities they will undoubtedly encounter in their adult life? On the flip-side is the question of whether it is proper for a parent to brain-wash a child into a belief before it is old enough to make up it's own mind. While It may be perfectly OK for an adult parent to be a bigot, to believe that interracial, inter-religious, or gay marriage is "wrong", it is not OK to make bigots of their children. It would be just as wrong as turning them into pedophiles. It's a form of child abuse.

I hope you don't think Christianity leads to pedophilia, I was raised in a christian home and I have none of those feelings or issues. The agenda is just like the article Mr. Daly wrote and the article I posted showing that people are pushing for acceptance if we like it or not. As far as children go I think they should learn about what is and is not sin not what the population feels is acceptable or not.

If you object so strongly, you can always put your children into a parochial school, where they can be fed propaganda contrary to public opinion and scientific fact. As for me, an atheist with no children, I strongly object to paying my taxes in order to indoctrinate YOUR children in what is clearly bigotry and superstition.

We are evolving beyond this nonsense, get used to it.

Bob

I do not think of myself as a bigot and standing for the Bible may not be popular but it is the truth. If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything. Thanks again Bob.

Pete