Im FREAKING out!

[Kuan]

So today I got hit by something completley unexpected.

I was talking with some of my friends (all mormon) and for some reason we were talking about our science class. And I mentioned evolution....What I got surprised me more than anything. They all claimed it was false and a bunch of crap!

Then they challenged me to prove it was right, and I thought I was set from my experience and time on here.

I pointed out the vestigial structures, the 99.7% amount of DNA we share in common with some species. All they replied was, so?

They claimed that just because we are close like this that it doesnt matter, the evidence proves nothing except god used the same materials and a similar design when making us.



How can you prove anything if someone discards the evidence like that? Every piece of evidence I pointed out, they just said the same thing. I have no clue what to do now...

Sorry...kind of a rant but I had to tell someone and there is no one to talk to out here in mormon land....

[cnorman18]

I applaud your growing understanding, but for entirely practical purposes, I would suggest that you avoid the topic if it's up to you. By all means stand up for what you believe to be true, but I don't think it's wise to go around looking for a fight. You have to live where you live, and it might be more prudent to keep your head down for the moment. If and when you move away from MormonLand, you can be less circumspect. You're probably not in the best time and place to mount a crusade on behalf of rationality and science.

I speak as a nonracist who survived the Sixties in the South. When it matters -- i.e., when you can actually change something -- you speak out, and you don't back down from a challenge or pretend to believe things you don't. But you don't walk around advertising your opposition to the culture you live in, either. That's called "painting a target on your back."

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

With all due respect to my friend cnorman18, and I agree as it relates to "practical", but I disagree as it relates to "who I am or who I wanna be"...

...
When it matters -- i.e., when you can actually change something -- you speak out, and you don't back down from a challenge or pretend to believe things you don't.

I propose one doesn't know if they can change things until they speak out.

Remaining silent is no better than capitulation.

But you don't walk around advertising your opposition to the culture you live in, either. That's called "painting a target on your back."

It's also called "standing up for what one believes". I propose remaining silent is to give the bully what they want.

Practical or not, if something is wrong SPEAK UP. Otherwise how in heck are others to know?

[LiamOS]

Aki, have you ever told them about James Randi and the million dollar challenge?

Of course.

I also gave a detailed outline of how no law of physics allows for either in a manner consistent with neurobiology or biology.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Unless of course you're willing to commit a crime.

[cnorman18]

From Post 10:

With all due respect to my friend cnorman18, and I agree as it relates to "practical", but I disagree as it relates to "who I am or who I wanna be"...

...
When it matters -- i.e., when you can actually change something -- you speak out, and you don't back down from a challenge or pretend to believe things you don't.

I propose one doesn't know if they can change things until they speak out.

Remaining silent is no better than capitulation.

But you don't walk around advertising your opposition to the culture you live in, either. That's called "painting a target on your back."

It's also called "standing up for what one believes". I propose remaining silent is to give the bully what they want.

Practical or not, if something is wrong SPEAK UP. Otherwise how in heck are others to know?

I'm of two minds about it, and I certainly see what you mean; but then there's the consideration of, do you speak out when you KNOW you're just asking for trouble?

I'm reminded of the remark my Senior English teacher once made toward the end of class, when we were growing a bit loud and restless and inattentive: "Sit down, gentlemen, I have a few more pearls to cast." I think I was the only one in the room who got it.

"Don't cast your pearls before swine" means that it's pointless to offer wisdom to those who are determined to reject it. That's a judgment one has to make, of course, but sometimes it's wise to make it. To take an example from the opposite perspective, I knew a fellow who thought it would be brave and forthright to preach the Gospel and denounce sin and depravity in a biker bar. Visited him in the hospital. Not a good plan.

[JoeyKnothead]

I'm of two minds about it, and I certainly see what you mean; but then there's the consideration of, do you speak out when you KNOW you're just asking for trouble?

I'm reminded of the remark my Senior English teacher once made toward the end of class, when we were growing a bit loud and restless and inattentive: "Sit down, gentlemen, I have a few more pearls to cast." I think I was the only one in the room who got it.

"Don't cast your pearls before swine" means that it's pointless to offer wisdom to those who are determined to reject it. That's a judgment one has to make, of course, but sometimes it's wise to make it. To take an example from the opposite perspective, I knew a fellow who thought it would be brave and forthright to preach the Gospel and denounce sin and depravity in a biker bar. Visited him in the hospital. Not a good plan.

I can certainly get with that program. Like not speaking up in a biker bar, I also wouldn't just hop up at a funeral and go to carrying on with the preacher. Just wanted to give an alternate take.

[cnorman18]

I'm of two minds about it, and I certainly see what you mean; but then there's the consideration of, do you speak out when you KNOW you're just asking for trouble?

I'm reminded of the remark my Senior English teacher once made toward the end of class, when we were growing a bit loud and restless and inattentive: "Sit down, gentlemen, I have a few more pearls to cast." I think I was the only one in the room who got it.

"Don't cast your pearls before swine" means that it's pointless to offer wisdom to those who are determined to reject it. That's a judgment one has to make, of course, but sometimes it's wise to make it. To take an example from the opposite perspective, I knew a fellow who thought it would be brave and forthright to preach the Gospel and denounce sin and depravity in a biker bar. Visited him in the hospital. Not a good plan.

I can certainly get with that program. Like not speaking up in a biker bar, I also wouldn't just hop up at a funeral and go to carrying on with the preacher. Just wanted to give an alternate take.

I hear you. Let me be clear; if I were Mormonboy, and the subject of, say, evolution came up in a conversation (or even in a class), I'd say what I thought; but I wouldn't bring it up myself, on my own. It's one thing not to back down from a fight (hey, I'm a Texan, we don't do that); it's quite another to go out looking for one. And if you sense that someone ELSE is looking for a fight -- well, I guess that would depend on whether or not you think you can take him. Certain conversations I've had here come to mind.