Crutch or Comfort

[Sender]

Whenever you feel scared or sometimes desperate, as an atheist who do you call on in times of crisis, , or what do you do? Someone posed the question...what is different between Christianity and other religions? After a lifetime of searching (off and on), I have(subject to change), realized my answer. And that is I don't know. And part of THAT is because I don't know the answer I just posed to you. Throughout my life I have been hot and cold in my relationship with the Lord. Married but chased woman, divorce, re-marry. Never had a drinking problem, but have smoked allot of pot in my day. Honest otherwise and pay my bills. I could <b>almost</b> retire today at forty seven if I chose to. So anyway I have spent allot of time having a relationship with Jesus, pretty much since I was very young. I have not really doubted God exists. I don't know why that is, my parents could of cared less. It just seems Jesus has been there my whole life, even when I would tell him to go away and eat shit. But as a friend sometimesI would not talk to him maybe but a couple times a year. Other times I would be so close to him and be totally enveloped in him that it is so hard to explain. But even so in all of my travels he would be with me even if I wasn't talking to him. But always in the back of my mind it has given me a comfort in feeling safe. In motels in a strange town.Contemplating life while working out running the dirt roads on the back of the base will serving in the Marines in Japan. To being there when my children had/have a high fever or worse. Driving in a terrible storm. The Bible said God will send the comforter(Holy Spirit), which is part of the truine God.

Now some will argue that is a crutch for mindless nimbelsils. Please don't think that. With all kinds of effort and energy and even money going in to exposing God as a fraud, has that really happened yet beyond a shadow of a doubt? I suppose atheist could say the same thing, and to many they are right. It doesn't matter. All the slide rules and equations and theories can not measure that personal relationship, when you allow him to be your best friend.

The Bible in Job talks about the "streams in the sea", yet we as a people we didn't know about that until 1977. We discovered light causes wind 150 years ago, written in Job hundreds and hundreds of years ago. Noah's instruction's regarding dimentions to build a boat, 150 feet longer than any wooden ship we can build today. The navy has done studies and concluded(even if it doesn't exist) if you were to build a wooden boat to withstand a world wide flood, those are the EXACT dimentions it would take for it to survive. That was written forty forty hundred years ago! Thousands of exciting examples are within these pages. "As far as the East is from the West", is very cool because had it of said as far as the North is from the South you have a measurable distance because of the Poles. Just so many cool things to read about in the Bible.

In summary. Who do you have in your life that is always going to be there no matter what? Who I may add is four dimentional, and will still be there for you beyond the grave? I don't belive that can be measured. I would feel so naked and exposed and vulnerable if I didn't have that.

Again a crutch? Or a comfort? I believe in the Comforter who gives you that serenity and peace. Where does your inner peace come from? Just because we as Christians have our "spiritual" side covered, doesn't mean we have shut our brains off at the door. You can have both! God not only loves us he loves the sciences as well. As an Atheist who is your comforter?

[Sender]

I didn't have a glee in my eye, I only thought of it as I was writing. I can see why you would look upon that as a mean old bastard of a God. I just see a picture of all of us in these huge colums of lines, and Jesus standing there before us, and we all say yes Jesus, you are the Son of God and Lord of the Universe and we bow before him. What happens after that will depend on what we did with our lives with regard to Him while we were here on earth with a free will. What choice did we make? Are you in the "Book of Life"? If you don't believe in him that would seem intimidating, but for those who believe, GLORIOUS.

[Diana Holberg]

I have to wonder how you can reconcile the love and mercy that you're so certain of with, not only the many terrifying biblical accounts (the sort that make men God-fearing), but also the reality of the world that surrounds you.

I hope you do not mind if I respond to this...

I find that understanding of "reality" comes best from viewing the world as a large family under God. This perspective makes it easy to reconcile conflict in humanity, as well the view of Him as a loving disciplinarian.

Do you not ask yourself where Jesus was when hundreds of small children met a terrifying death after a three-day ordeal in the Beslan seige?

I know where Jesus is -- bleeding and suffering on a Cross for the salvation of those children -- and for their killers.

As a parent I cannot imagine being able to rationalize this sort of tragedy (far too mild a word for it) into any framework in which I felt there was some greater power (than man) that was inactively sitting on the sidelines watching events unfold.

As a parent, you are in a unique position to make sense of such things. Surely if you have more than one child, you witness disputes and violence among siblings bordering on hatred (if not actually involving it). Do you blame yourself for those events?

No doubt you will say that as a parent you step in and put a stop to "tragedy" on the family level. And perhaps when they are very young, that is true. (The Biblical equivalent is the Great Flood.) But as they mature, do you not increasingly allow them to work out their own conflicts?

And as they come of age, do you not recognize that -- if they are to have free will -- your authority over them becomes more dependent on their willing obedience?

How on Earth could such an entity be a source of comfort?

How is a father a comfort to his battling children?

[Chad]

I do the things that need to be done (referring to the crisis at hand for example), the physical, the logistics, ect., but I also have the inside belief and knowledge that God has everything handled.

How exactly does he have everything handled? Are you implying that he is using divine intervention to change events in the lives of the believers? That's putting a lot of unfounded belief in God. If he truly is intervening in events, he has been doing a rather poor job of choosing when to intervene. It seems rather selfish to me to think that he is intervening in events in my life when so many other people suffer every day. If you truly believe that he has everything handled, then why do you even attempt to work anything out at all?

So what is the difference between Atheist and Christians always boils down to one answer doesn't it.? And his name is Jesus! The name above all others names. Do you know Atheist and Christians alike will bow down to Jesus and confess he is the Son of God when it's all over? "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord". This IS going to happen weather you believe it or not. The difference between your belief and mine is you don't believe it and I am looking forward to it. There is that comfort again:)

Those are quite the claims you made. I think there's much more of a difference between Christians and Atheists then faith in Jesus, but I'd rather not touch on it. As for bowing down before Jesus and confessing he is the Son of God whether I believe it or not, no one can say as an absolute what will happen after death. We can make a logical guess though, and thinking that I will bow down and confess Jesus Christ as the Lord doesn't sound logical at all. What do you think happens to other animals when they die? They cease to function and they decompose. What makes people feel as if we are so special as to deserve some sort of special treatment? Yes, we are unique in a few aspects to many animals, though I would consider some animals much more unique in how they work and function.

It's somewhat discouraging to me that people need to put so much faith into a God for the sole purpose of extra comfort and hopes of an afterlife, which seem to go hand-in-hand. Although I guess it doesn't surprise me. When people are given the hope of having faith that if they behave and follow a set of rules they will ascend to heaven, it seems much more pleasing for them to hold this faith, however irrational it is. It seems to be nothing more than wishful thinking.

[Sender]

Well Chad at least you concede I at least have a good ending if what I believe comes to pass, by calling it "wishful" thinking. lol My question is, how does what I believe offend, harm or discourage anyone?

[Chad]

Well Chad at least you concede I at least have a good ending if what I believe comes to pass, by calling it "wishful" thinking.lol My question is, how does what I believe offend or harm anyone?

There has been a lot of killing in the name of religion. There's still a rather uneasy mindset towards homosexuals as well. I'm sure both of those offend and harm other people.

I know a few very religious people in my family. They will pray for a certain situation in hopes that this prayer will be answered and that all will turn out well. Why do this though? It would make more sense to me to actually try to help the problem rather than sit back and hope a divine force will pull it through. It's funny to me though, if the event in question turns in the favor they wanted it to, they may exclaim to themselves, "My prayer worked!" Though when an event that they prayed for doesn't work out in their favor, what do they think then? Do they shrug it off as God simply ignoring their prayer that time? But what makes that prayer insignificant compared to the other? Why some events and not others? Well, it would seem to be a mere coincidence between the event turning out to go well and the prayer they gave, and nothing more.

I think it more or less harms oneself more than anyone else though. People are putting faith in an old story with little to no evidence to back it up and try to live their lives by it's teachings. It seems to stifle thinking in many people as well. I know that in the USA, teaching creation (ID) alongside evolution is constantly proposed and even our president feels that this is the right thing to do. However, one is obviously based on scientific evidence and findings while the other is based on no scientific evidence or findings. To me this is very harming. We want to tell kids, "Well, this is obviously very complex, so I'm going to assume that there's no way it could have came about from evolution!" This is a huge cop-out to me. They should be learning to think and question how something works, not assuming it was magically created.

[Sender]

I just did a thread on this you may want to read. I think those are prejudicial remarks you are making, yet I am not offended because I don't think you mean it that way., you don't know any better. You are right it is ones own beliefs. I don't see why people have this perception of faith in God is followed by ignorance., other than to make themselves feel better. But yes, those remarks is very racist and bigoted imo. If I were to say them a moderator would give me a warning.

Again why does it bother you, other than you think you are helping by targeting those and trying to get them not to believe that? Am I understanding correctly. Why would you try to interfere with anothers beliefs?

And ALWAYS, when things are getting to hot to handle, the insults and degrading comes to throw everyone off the scent. I hope you young Chad don't become that in your search.

[Chad]

I just did a thread on this you may want to read. I think those are prejudicial remarks you are making, yet I am not offended because I don't think you mean it that way., you don't know any better. You are right it is ones own beliefs. I don't see why people have this perception of faith in God is followed by ignorance., other than to make themselves feel better. But yes, those remarks is very racist and bigoted imo. If I were to say them a moderator would give me a warning.

Again why does it bother you, other than you think you are helping by targeting those and trying to get them not to believe that? Am I understanding correctly. Why would you try to interfere with anothers beliefs?

And ALWAYS, when things are getting to hot to handle, the insults and degrading comes to throw everyone off the scent. I hope you young Chad don't become that in your search.

Which remarks of mine are racist and bigoted? I'm not attempting to come off this way, and apologize if I have. I tried to answer the question, of how your beliefs may harm or offend others, as best as I could. I may state a lot in what I say, but I do ask questions as well. I cannot accurately tell what your exact beliefs are, so I gave general examples and experience from my life, this doesn't mean at all that I feel you fit that description!

I'm not sure what you mean by attempting to interfere with others beliefs. You may certainly believe whatever you wish. I did state what I thought when you asked me a question. Much like you stated what you thought, when you said the following:

So what is the difference between Atheist and Christians always boils down to one answer doesn't it.? And his name is Jesus! The name above all others names. Do you know Atheist and Christians alike will bow down to Jesus and confess he is the Son of God when it's all over? "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord". This IS going to happen weather you believe it or not. The difference between your belief and mine is you don't believe it and I am looking forward to it. There is that comfort again:)

Again, sorry if I appear to come off as hostile, it is genuinely not my goal. I do have some strong feelings on ID being taught in school, as well as many teachings of the bible. Sorry if the remarks towards these were coming off as hostile, insulting or degrading.

[Sender]

I just did a thread on this you may want to read. I think those are prejudicial remarks you are making, yet I am not offended because I don't think you mean it that way., you don't know any better. You are right it is ones own beliefs. I don't see why people have this perception of faith in God is followed by ignorance., other than to make themselves feel better. But yes, those remarks is very racist and bigoted imo. If I were to say them a moderator would give me a warning.

Again why does it bother you, other than you think you are helping by targeting those and trying to get them not to believe that? Am I understanding correctly. Why would you try to interfere with anothers beliefs?

And ALWAYS, when things are getting to hot to handle, the insults and degrading comes to throw everyone off the scent. I hope you young Chad don't become that in your search.

Which remarks of mine are racist and bigoted? I'm not attempting to come off this way, and apologize if I have. I tried to answer the question, of how your beliefs may harm or offend others, as best as I could. I may state a lot in what I say, but I do ask questions as well. I cannot accurately tell what your exact beliefs are, so I gave general examples and experience from my life, this doesn't mean at all that I feel you fit that description!

I'm not sure what you mean by attempting to interfere with others beliefs. You may certainly believe whatever you wish. I did state what I thought when you asked me a question. Much like you stated what you thought, when you said the following:

So what is the difference between Atheist and Christians always boils down to one answer doesn't it.? And his name is Jesus! The name above all others names. Do you know Atheist and Christians alike will bow down to Jesus and confess he is the Son of God when it's all over? "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord". This IS going to happen weather you believe it or not. The difference between your belief and mine is you don't believe it and I am looking forward to it. There is that comfort again:)

Again, sorry if I appear to come off as hostile, it is genuinely not my goal. I do have some strong feelings on ID being taught in school, as well as many teachings of the bible. Sorry if the remarks towards these were coming off as hostile, insulting or degrading.

Thank you for your kind words. I can see why you say that about some Christians looking down on homosexuals. Sadly that is true, but not all. I believe you can be homosexual and a Christian at the same time.

[bernee51]

Do you know Atheist and Christians alike will bow down to Jesus and confess he is the son of God when it's all over? "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess the Jesus Christ is Lord". This IS going to happen weather you believe it or not. The difference between your belief and mine is you don't believe it and I am looking forward to it. There is that comfort again:)

And your source for this piece of 'information' is {{{{drumroll}}} - the bible.Why is your book of myth any more valid than any other? Answer, it isn't.

Your scanario is not going to happen whether you want it to or not. The scenario you envisage is not even original. It is a paraphrase of the Srimad Bhagavatam, a Hindu scripture reputedly written 5000 years ago. Doomsday forecasts are a common feature of most religions. extinct and extant.

You are looking forward to wishful thinking. I find something rather sad and futile in that.

[Sender]

Do you know Atheist and Christians alike will bow down to Jesus and confess he is the son of God when it's all over? "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess the Jesus Christ is Lord". This IS going to happen weather you believe it or not. The difference between your belief and mine is you don't believe it and I am looking forward to it. There is that comfort again:)

And your source for this piece of 'information' is {{{{drumroll}}} - the bible.Why is your book of myth any more valid than any other? Answer, it isn't.

Your scanario is not going to happen whether you want it to or not. The scenario you envisage is not even original. It is a paraphrase of the Srimad Bhagavatam, a Hindu scripture reputedly written 5000 years ago. Doomsday forecasts are a common feature of most religions. extinct and extant.

You are looking forward to wishful thinking. I find something rather sad and futile in that.

It's source is the Bible you are correct.