Discussion of the book ''A Secular Age'' by Charles Taylor

[Druijf]

I have read the introduction of this book which makes me very excited, and heard a lot of people about it. Maybe this could lead to an interesting discussion on this forum, I was thinking of putting it in the form of a book debate.

What does it mean to say that we live in a secular age? Almost everyone would agree that we - in the West, at least - largely do. And clearly the place of religion in our societies has changed profoundly in the last few centuries. In what will be a defining book for our time, Charles Taylor takes up the question of what these changes mean - of what, precisely, happens when a society in which it is virtually impossible not to believe in God becomes one in which faith, even for the staunchest believer, is only one human possibility among others.Taylor, long one of our most insightful thinkers on such questions, offers a historical perspective. He examines the development in Western Christendom of those aspects of modernity which we call secular. What he describes is in fact not a single, continuous transformation, but a series of new departures, in which earlier forms of religious life have been dissolved or destabilized and new ones have been created. As we see here, today's secular world is characterized not by an absence of religion - although in some societies religious belief and practice have markedly declined - but rather by the continuing multiplication of new options, religious, spiritual, and anti-religious, which individuals and groups seize on in order to make sense of their lives and give shape to their spiritual aspirations.What this means for the world - including the new forms of collective religious life it encourages, with their tendency to a mass mobilization that breeds violence - is what Charles Taylor grapples with, in a book as timely as it is timeless.

[theopoesis]

I've read this book. Very interesting ideas, but one of the most dense books ever. I'd participate a bit in a book discussion, but the 700+ pages touch on almost every thinker since the 1000s, so not sure I can really fully invest in a discussion. I do recommend the book though.

[Druijf]

Yeah, you're probably right that the book is a bit too massive for a book debate here. If you are interested in doing a book discussion, I would like some suggestions by you. Your posts and blog are interesting.

Seeing a quote of Milbank in your profile, maybe an accessible work of a theologian in the Radical Orthodoxy-movement? (if that exists, I heard they can produce quite difficult stuff that requires knowledge of the work of Foucault, Derrida, Aquinas and Duns Scotus?)

[theopoesis]

Yeah, you're probably right that the book is a bit too massive for a book debate here. If you are interested in doing a book discussion, I would like some suggestions by you. Your posts and blog are interesting.

Seeing a quote of Milbank in your profile, maybe an accessible work of a theologian in the Radical Orthodoxy-movement? (if that exists, I heard they can produce quite difficult stuff that requires knowledge of the work of Foucault, Derrida, Aquinas and Duns Scotus?)

Are there any particular areas in which you would be interested in exploring radical orthodoxy? Millbank, to be honest, is too broad for me to fully engage. I have almost no foundation in sociology, so the second section of Theology and Social Theory loses me. I've read Steven Long extremely closely, which would make things easy for me, but it would also perhaps be unfair (I've already got 10+ pages of notes). I wouldn't want to come into a conversation on unequal footing. He studies economics and theology, and I'm not sure how relevant his Divine Economy is here. Much of it is about theological disputes among different schools in addition to theological economics. The alternative theological economists (Kathryn Tanner, for example) usually seem woefully inadequate to me, hence the desire to move toward writing my own book.

As for other books: From a secular perspective on political theology, Mark Lilla's The Stillborn God is interesting. I read Taylor's A Secular Age in a class taught by Edward Rommen at Duke. His book Get Real was just published and is available on the publisher's website. It should be on amazon soon. It is ostensibly on evangelism, but addresses the deeper thought of Zizek, Baudrillard, Zizioulas, and others on ideas like reality, community, personhood, meaning, and being. It might be interesting, and Rommen IMO is the smartest professor at Duke. Having said that, Zizek, Baudrillard, Lyotard, or the like might be interesting reads too, from a cultural criticism perspective not really Christian but not fully divorced from Christianity either. I've also heard good things about the theologian William Cavanaugh as well, though I've only read articles and no books. (Theopolitical Imagination costs over $40!)

Is any of that rambling remotely helpful?

[Druijf]

Thank you very much for your suggestions, I will certainly look after the names you mentioned. But I am afraid that I am not so familiar with modern theological discourse as you are. I think I will start reading Introducing Radical Orthodoxy bij J.K.A. Smith first, but I guess this work is too low-level for you. What seems interesting to me is the critique in RO of modernity and the secular and I am wondering about the epistomology that is behind this theological movement as well. Do you place yourself in the RO-spectrum?

I am also interested in biblical hermeneutics and theological reflection on biblical authority in light of postmodernity and historical criticism. Any suggestions?

[theopoesis]

Thank you very much for your suggestions, I will certainly look after the names you mentioned. But I am afraid that I am not so familiar with modern theological discourse as you are. I think I will start reading Introducing Radical Orthodoxy bij J.K.A. Smith first, but I guess this work is too low-level for you. What seems interesting to me is the critique in RO of modernity and the secular and I am wondering about the epistomology that is behind this theological movement as well. Do you place yourself in the RO-spectrum?

I am RO in many ways, but certainly no expert. I haven't heard of J.K.A. Smith's Introducing Radical Orthodoxy for example. I wouldn't consider it below me. The table of contents on Amazon alone is enough to pique my interest, and it looks like a solid place to start.

Out of curiosity, what is your area of study/knowledge?

I am also interested in biblical hermeneutics and theological reflection on biblical authority in light of postmodernity and historical criticism. Any suggestions?

Well I learned most of what I know about post-modern hermeneutics by turning to the post-modernists themselves. Jacques Derrida is a personal favorite. From a Christian perspective, here are some things to consider:

On Postmodernity
Kevin Vanhoozer - Is there a meaning in this text?
This is a wonderful book on postmodernity and hermeneutics by arguably the most influential evangelical theologian out there. He is brilliant, and it serves as a good introduction to Christian ideas on postmodernity as well as postmodern ideas themselves.

George Lindbeck - The nature of doctrine
This is a book from the post-liberal perspective that offers a vision of doctrine more compatible with post-modernity. I wouldn't say I'm as enthusiastic about Lindbeck as I am about many other contemporary theologians, but he is very influential. (Interestingly Van Hoozer's The Drama of Doctrine, another good book, engages Lindbeck a lot. It might be something else worth reading).

On Historical Criticism

John Van Seters - The Edited Bible
This is a critique of the entire documentary hypothesis. Very solid scholarship, but a bit academic and therefore expensive on amazon. (I think they only have used copies).

I can't really think of any other broad overviews in light of historical criticism, but more case specific works. I'm not sure which of them I'd recommend.

[Druijf]

Out of curiosity, what is your area of study/knowledge?

I am a former Reformed christian (Dutch neocalvinism). I have a bachelor degree in (Reformed) Theology, I switched to Religious Studies, spec. biblical studies (esp. New Testament / Early Judaism). I hope to finish my studies this month. Besides my studies I spent time reading Nietzsche, history and Greek and Roman literature.

[theopoesis]

Out of curiosity, what is your area of study/knowledge?

I am a former Reformed christian (Dutch neocalvinism). I have a bachelor degree in (Reformed) Theology, I switched to Religious Studies, spec. biblical studies (esp. New Testament / Early Judaism). I hope to finish my studies this month. Besides my studies I spent time reading Nietzsche, history and Greek and Roman literature.

Thanks for sharing. You are working on a masters or doctorate, then?

[Druijf]

I am working for a masters degree (my thesis is about the hypothesis of John Kloppenborg on the compositional history of Q). This is taking me longer than necessary. I always have difficulty to stay focused on the curriculum, because I often see other books and subjects that seem more interesting to me at the moment. I am probably not disciplined enough to do a PhD. I like to read, but I am not so keen on writing articles and papers, especially when dealing with exigetical minutiae.

So are you interested in discussing the book Introducing Radical Orthodoxy? Let's see if we can find some other people here who would like to discuss this book.

Thanks for those other book tips, btw.

[Slopeshoulder]

I'd be interested in this discussion. Although I may not be able to make the time to go deeply into it; so I may just have to read the thread. I do hope it happens.