Morality

[ShnogTrip]

Our morals come from common sense. It's one of our survival tools. People realized that rules were needed if they wanted to continue surviving and living a more worry free life. We realized that there needs to be some kind of order. No one wants someone to steal their belongings so a law for stealing was created. No one wants their loved ones to be hurt or killed so laws for that were created.

Our morals can be explained by our natural ability to have empathy for one another. For instance, I wouldn't want my things stolen so I'm not going to steal your things. We are able to see other people as ourselves. However, some people lack that trait.

Our morals are sometimes learned from other people. Whether it be our family, friends, or a religion.

Our morals can also be explained by the simple fact that we might just be intimidated by the person we are wanting to steal from or harm, etc. Of course the fear of spending time in prison probably stops a lot of people from doing "wrong" as well.

It all comes down to doing what is good for our survival. Our own survival and the survival of the human race. Right is what's good for our survival and wrong is what's bad for it.

Does anyone agree with me? If not, where do you think our morals come from?

[Lux]

Our morals come from common sense. It's one of our survival tools. People realized that rules were needed if they wanted to continue surviving and living a more worry free life. We realized that there needs to be some kind of order. No one wants someone to steal their belongings so a law for stealing was created. No one wants their loved ones to be hurt or killed so laws for that were created.

I think many of our moral values come from society rather than our own nature. Of course, our need to be part of a society is natural for most humans, but there are morals that are or have been imposed by society that are in direct contradiction with our instincts.

Our morals can be explained by our natural ability to have empathy for one another. For instance, I wouldn't want my things stolen so I'm not going to steal your things. We are able to see other people as ourselves. However, some people lack that trait.

Take into account the amount of empathy felt greatly varies from one human to the other. Some can cheat on their spouse and feel no remorse. Some can lie without even blinking. Some can kill and not even be sorry for it.

Even in the case of a human with a normal ability to empathize some commonly shared morals don't fit into this category.
For example, a moral law that was quite harshly imposed by society in the past (and still is in some parts of the world) is that we should abstain from sex before marriage. This is a contradiction to our natural reproductive instinct.

Our morals are sometimes learned from other people. Whether it be our family, friends, or a religion.

I'd say most times rather than sometimes. I believe there is a direct correlation between being raised in what could be considered a normal way and likeliness of committing crimes.

Our morals can also be explained by the simple fact that we might just be intimidated by the person we are wanting to steal from or harm, etc. Of course the fear of spending time in prison probably stops a lot of people from doing "wrong" as well.

To abstain from doing something because we are afraid of the consequences is not really a reflection on our morals. If I don't steal my neighbor's car only because I'm afraid he'll take revenge, I'm not showing high moral values, just good self-preservation instincts.

[olavisjo]

Our morals come from common sense. It's one of our survival tools. People realized that rules were needed if they wanted to continue surviving and living a more worry free life. We realized that there needs to be some kind of order. No one wants someone to steal their belongings so a law for stealing was created. No one wants their loved ones to be hurt or killed so laws for that were created.

Our morals can be explained by our natural ability to have empathy for one another. For instance, I wouldn't want my things stolen so I'm not going to steal your things. We are able to see other people as ourselves. However, some people lack that trait.

Our morals are sometimes learned from other people. Whether it be our family, friends, or a religion.

Our morals can also be explained by the simple fact that we might just be intimidated by the person we are wanting to steal from or harm, etc. Of course the fear of spending time in prison probably stops a lot of people from doing "wrong" as well.

I agree with all that you have said, we do get our morals from a lot of places. But my question to you is do you believe that something like murder as actually really wrong or do we just try to brainwash each other, in society, to believe that it is wrong so that we will be in less danger of being murdered?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 3:

...But my question to you is do you believe that something like murder as actually really wrong or do we just try to brainwash each other, in society, to believe that it is wrong so that we will be in less danger of being murdered?

Murder is wrong by definition.

As to why it is considered wrong, various notions come into play, some more important than others, and most folks' lists will likely be different.

In a society that seeks stability, the act of murder is counter productive, as it creates an atmosphere of retaliation, fear, and other such that affects folks' quality of life. Increased need to guard against murder, thus creating less time for other pursuits is also in play.

"Brainwashing" is not far off the mark, at least as Webster's defines it.

Though I prefer not to use the term due to its negative connotations, I would contend in this matter brainwashing is not such a bad idea.

[olavisjo]

In a society that seeks stability, the act of murder is counter productive, as it creates an atmosphere of retaliation, fear, and other such that affects folks' quality of life. Increased need to guard against murder, thus creating less time for other pursuits is also in play.

Okay, that is a part of the picture, murder does cause difficulty for society. But what about the victim? The victim will be entirely out of any pain or hardship, they will just slip into the eternal sleep without dreams that they would go to sooner or later, so no harm no foul. And if there is no other collateral damage, murder should be fine according to the thinking that I seem to understand you hold.

For example, a woman living out in the countryside gives birth to a child that she does not want anymore and decides to bury the baby in the woods where nobody sees her do it. She has done no harm to anyone, even the child is spared the misery that life will inevitably bring. So can we say that this act of killing is not wrong?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 5:

Okay, that is a part of the picture, murder does cause difficulty for society. But what about the victim? The victim will be entirely out of any pain or hardship, they will just slip into the eternal sleep without dreams that they would go to sooner or later, so no harm no foul...

No, there is still harm because of the potential for retribution, and the impact of the murder on the psychology of those around.

And if there is no other collateral damage, murder should be fine according to the thinking that I seem to understand you hold.

The collateral damage is in living with a murderer on the loose.

For example, a woman living out in the countryside gives birth to a child that she does not want anymore and decides to bury the baby in the woods where nobody sees her do it. She has done no harm to anyone, even the child is spared the misery that life will inevitably bring.

The problem here is that this woman has deprived this child of it's own decision making regarding whether it wants to live or not, and whether it thinks its own life will be "misery".

So can we say that this act of killing is not wrong?

It is wrong for the above reason.

Remember, we are talking about 'murder', a word which is defined as 'wrong' to begin with. This woman, by giving birth, has created a person with whom certain rights and privileges are offered. Her taking it upon herself to negate those rights is the violation.

[olavisjo]

This woman, by giving birth, has created a person with whom certain rights and privileges are offered. Her taking it upon herself to negate those rights is the violation.

Would you explain what you mean when you say "certain rights and privileges are offered".

[ShnogTrip]

From Post 3:

...But my question to you is do you believe that something like murder as actually really wrong or do we just try to brainwash each other, in society, to believe that it is wrong so that we will be in less danger of being murdered?

Murder is wrong by definition.

As to why it is considered wrong, various notions come into play, some more important than others, and most folks' lists will likely be different.

In a society that seeks stability, the act of murder is counter productive, as it creates an atmosphere of retaliation, fear, and other such that affects folks' quality of life. Increased need to guard against murder, thus creating less time for other pursuits is also in play.

"Brainwashing" is not far off the mark, at least as Webster's defines it.

Though I prefer not to use the term due to its negative connotations, I would contend in this matter brainwashing is not such a bad idea.

I agree with you. I also think that empathy comes into play when it comes to violence and murder. Most people instinctively realize that they wouldn't want that happening to themselves, except for the people without empathy. It's just another survival tool that's wired into our brains. If it's bad for our survival then it's naturally wrong.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 7:

This woman, by giving birth, has created a person with whom certain rights and privileges are offered. Her taking it upon herself to negate those rights is the violation.

Would you explain what you mean when you say "certain rights and privileges are offered".

Life and self-determination come to mind.

[olavisjo]

Would you explain what you mean when you say "certain rights and privileges are offered".

Life and self-determination come to mind.

I was more interested in getting your opinion on who or what offers these rights and privileges. Also are these rights and privileges a property of the material world or spiritual world or imaginary world or whatever world?