Displaying the Svastica in public

[Lux]

Recently I was in an informal high school reunion, where someone showed up displaying a Svastica in his bag.
I was the first one to stand up and protest, and a debate started. Some people said that everyone should have the right to display their political ideas, regardless of the nature of said ideas.
Someone even pointed out that, if displaying a Svastica is taboo, why is it ok to display religious symbols, such as a cross? (Considering that some religions are also guilty of several deaths).

Is it OK to go around with a symbol that is mostly nazi-associated? Should freedom of speech be absolute, or restricted in cases that involve something like racism?

(Just to be clear, there was no doubt that this Svastica was in representation of the Nazi party and not related to the one in Hinduism)

[Flashpoint]

Recently I was in an informal high school reunion, where someone showed up displaying a Svastica in his bag.
I was the first one to stand up and protest, and a debate started. Some people said that everyone should have the right to display their political ideas, regardless of the nature of said ideas.
Someone even pointed out that, if displaying a Svastica is taboo, why is it ok to display religious symbols, such as a cross? (Considering that some religions are also guilty of several deaths).

Is it OK to go around with a symbol that is mostly nazi-associated? Should freedom of speech be absolute, or restricted in cases that involve something like racism?

(Just to be clear, there was no doubt that this Svastica was in representation of the Nazi party and not related to the one in Hinduism)

I have known in my life a handful of nationalists who hold a less radical view of the nazi doctrines. Perhaps liberal nazis in a sense. They display their swastika, or hakkenkreis as they call it, proudly as a symbol of such things as duty, racial purity and independence. Some people may see the flag as symbolic of atrocities and genocide, but in my opinion it does no more harm to display a swastika than to display for example an american flag.

[Goat]

Recently I was in an informal high school reunion, where someone showed up displaying a Svastica in his bag.
I was the first one to stand up and protest, and a debate started. Some people said that everyone should have the right to display their political ideas, regardless of the nature of said ideas.
Someone even pointed out that, if displaying a Svastica is taboo, why is it ok to display religious symbols, such as a cross? (Considering that some religions are also guilty of several deaths).

Is it OK to go around with a symbol that is mostly nazi-associated? Should freedom of speech be absolute, or restricted in cases that involve something like racism?

(Just to be clear, there was no doubt that this Svastica was in representation of the Nazi party and not related to the one in Hinduism)

I have known in my life a handful of nationalists who hold a less radical view of the nazi doctrines. Perhaps liberal nazis in a sense. They display their swastika, or hakkenkreis as they call it, proudly as a symbol of such things as duty, racial purity and independence. Some people may see the flag as symbolic of atrocities and genocide, but in my opinion it does no more harm to display a swastika than to display for example an american flag.

In my experience, those people who display the swastika for any reason do have a tendency to the more harmful aspects of ethnic and national pride.

[cnorman18]

Freedom of speech in the US is all but unrestricted, and is likely to remain so. You may say whatever you like in public - offensive, obscene, slanderous, or whatever - and you may not be prevented from doing so. The concept is called "prior restraint," and the Supreme Court has ruled that it is forbidden even in cases of alleged national security (the relevant precedent was the Pentagon Papers case). You will, however, be liable in civil and/or criminal court for the consequences of what you say.

Displaying the svastica will, and should, remain legal in the United States (it is not, interestingly, in Germany); that doesn't mean that it isn't offensive.

If Black Americans are offended by the Confederate battle standard (which is more commonly displayed than the actual Confederate flag, which was quite different), how much more can other people, most notably Jews, be offended by display of this symbol of unadulterated hatred and evil?

More to the point: How can its display have any other intention? Communication only happens when the message received is reasonably congruent with the message sent. What benign intent could be understood by a display of that symbol?

For the record, I'm not even interested in the use of the symbol among Hindus. One is obliged, like it or not, to live in the society where one is, not some other society on the other side of the world. In the Philippines, an upraised middle finger is a gesture meaning "good luck to you," but one would not be wise to use it for that purpose here.

[Lux]

Freedom of speech in the US is all but unrestricted, and is likely to remain so. You may say whatever you like in public - offensive, obscene, slanderous, or whatever - and you may not be prevented from doing so. The concept is called "prior restraint," and the Supreme Court has ruled that it is forbidden even in cases of alleged national security (the relevant precedent was the Pentagon Papers case). You will, however, be liable in civil and/or criminal court for the consequences of what you say.

Indeed. This reminded me of the fact that you can get arrested in an airport for saying the word "bomb".

Displaying the svastica will, and should, remain legal in the United States (it is not, interestingly, in Germany); that doesn't mean that it isn't offensive.

I know several germans and the third reich is a big stigma for their country and a very taboo subject for them. They do anything they can to make it clear that they do not condone what happened, so it's no surprise to me that displaying the svastica is prohibited in Germany.

If Black Americans are offended by the Confederate battle standard (which is more commonly displayed than the actual Confederate flag, which was quite different), how much more can other people, most notably Jews, be offended by display of this symbol of unadulterated hatred and evil?

I personally feel very offended by displays of the svastica or any kind of endorsement to the nazi ideals, so I can only imagine how offended the Jewish (and black, and communist etc) must feel. Let alone the actual descendents of holocaust victims.
This is the reason why I hesitated when asked if I thought displaying the svastica should be illegal.

More to the point: How can its display have any other intention? Communication only happens when the message received is reasonably congruent with the message sent. What benign intent could be understood by a display of that symbol?

I don't see how. Perhaps Flashpoint or someone else could explain how the svastica doesn't do any more harm that the USA flag.
I realize that the USA has been guilty of many deaths, more that your average country. However, the flag of any country is, inevitably, the symbol of good things and bad things at the same time, and it is displayed mostly because of (usually harmless) national pride.
The big difference is that the USA flag, contrary to the nazi svastica, is not an iconic reference for genocide and racism. Or at the very least it doesn't try to be.

[Flashpoint]

Disclaimer: The following is simply opinion, I don not wish to get into any debate regarding the foreign policies of the USA.

The point I was trying to make with the American flag was simply that it too has been a symbol of death to many people. I can guarantee to you that most people living in Iraq and Afganistan assossiate it with the wars that have torn their countries apart.

[/disclaimer]

Displaying the Swastika in public does no direct harm to anyone. It may offend – I do not contest that – but no one is physically harmed by its display. The Swastika is seen as a symbol of genocide and racism, but also as a symbol of a country that was turned around in the blink of an eye to become one of the great powerhouses of the world.

I personally am offended by the crucifix and the droves upon droves of Christian imagery that permeate the very conservative society in which I live. In this country our ruling party is still viewed by many as the active terrorist group which it once was, yet it displays its flag with pride. They have publicly defended a major political player for singing a song with the lyrics "Shoot the boer (referring to the Afrikaans speaking whites of the country), he is a rapist."

My point with this? I don't agree that such actions are okay, but in the end I believe in freedom of speech. If a man wants to shout his racist ideals at the top of his lungs he's free to do so, but he shouldn't be surprised if someone shouts something offensive back.

[Lux]

Disclaimer: The following is simply opinion, I don not wish to get into any debate regarding the foreign policies of the USA.

The point I was trying to make with the American flag was simply that it too has been a symbol of death to many people. I can guarantee to you that most people living in Iraq and Afganistan assossiate it with the wars that have torn their countries apart.

[/disclaimer]

I understand. In my country the USA flag is not well liked (and the same goes for most of Latin America to the best of my knowledge).
The point that I was trying to make is that displaying the USA flag doesn't necessarily mean one endorses any of the historical or present wars or killings perpetuated by the USA government, while displaying the nazi svastica does (as far as I know) show some degree of appreciation for the "racial cleansing".

Displaying the Swastika in public does no direct harm to anyone. It may offend – I do not contest that – but no one is physically harmed by its display.

Psychological harm is as real as physical harm.

The Swastika is seen as a symbol of genocide and racism, but also as a symbol of a country that was turned around in the blink of an eye to become one of the great powerhouses of the world.

Not trying to get into a debate about politics, but I just don't see how it can be perceived that way. Not only because the atrocities the nazi party committed outshine their accomplishments, but also because World War II left Germany in a terrible state of depression. They suffered huge monetary and material loses, and lost 1/10 of their population. The war and Germany's defeat were direct consequences of Hitler's government.

I personally am offended by the crucifix and the droves upon droves of Christian imagery that permeate the very conservative society in which I live. In this country our ruling party is still viewed by many as the active terrorist group which it once was, yet it displays its flag with pride. They have publicly defended a major political player for singing a song with the lyrics "Shoot the boer (referring to the Afrikaans speaking whites of the country), he is a rapist."

Personally, I'm not offended by crucifixes. Mostly because I don't think that most people who wear them wish to pass a message of hate. I realize that some christians do want to spread a hate message, but I don't believe a crucifix is a universal symbol of hatred.

My point with this? I don't agree that such actions are okay, but in the end I believe in freedom of speech. If a man wants to shout his racist ideals at the top of his lungs he's free to do so, but he shouldn't be surprised if someone shouts something offensive back.

I agree they have the right to do so, but think that people should refrain from displaying things such as a svastica, out of respect.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 4:

I generally agree with the entire post, but feel compelled to respond on a point or so...

Displaying the svastica will, and should, remain legal in the United States (it is not, interestingly, in Germany); that doesn't mean that it isn't offensive.

When I was stationed in Germany in the early to mid '80s it was legal to discriminate, but not display one of the greatest symbols of discrimination ever known. I remember being at a friend's house and there was a black dude there. The landlord came by for whatever reason and flipped out at seeing a black man on his premises, and threatened to call the police. I never did understand that.

If Black Americans are offended by the Confederate battle standard (which is more commonly displayed than the actual Confederate flag, which was quite different), how much more can other people, most notably Jews, be offended by display of this symbol of unadulterated hatred and evil?

I actually changed from flying the more common Confederate flag with the original confederate Navy flag, specifically in an effort to remove some of the racial symbolism, while retaining a pride in the worthy parts of my Southern culture. This flag is often confused as the UN flag, and so it also ties in with my being a "UN citizen". Of course this flag is flown lower than the Stars and Stripes. I leave my flags up 24/7 and even in the weather as a tribute to those who fight at all times, and in all weather conditions. I don't change them until they are unrecognizable as I top the hill to my driveway/house.

[Slopeshoulder]

It should be legal.
And it should be dangerous.
Display at your own risk of social approbrium and ostracization up through whatever else a right thinking person might take into their own hands.
It's legal to sleep with your neighbors wife. It's also risky.

[Flail]

hate speech is not protected under certain circumstances...however the guarantee of free speech is foundational to freedom and includes the freedom to speak against atrocious free speech.