Does God exist?

[McCulloch]

By what arguments can a believer in the one true god demonstrate to an unbeliever that God does exist?

What do you mean when you use the word God?

[Scotracer]

This is part of the reply I had made that messed up:

The flawed biology

TR, you have said in a couple of replies now that the living organisms that we see are "flawless" or "perfect". Well that just isn't true. Look at the number of defects humans have, alone. Do you wear - or do you know anyone who does wear - glasses? Do you or anyone you know have colour-blindness? Does anyone you know have or had a disease such as cancer or diabetes?

You then went on to talk about that humans are born "correct", implying that every human is born with each organ where it should be etc. Well firstly I can see you are trying to say that chance alone can't account for any such distribution....and it can't, but evolution is not chance! Second of all, not all humans are born properly. There are many congenital disorders where humans are born without all their organs...or with superfluous ones. Here is a list of congenital disorders.

So no, the world isn't perfect or flawless by any means; in fact, it bears all the hallmarks of a fight to survive. This has never been the case and perhaps one of the most high-profile case of this in palaeontology is Sue the Tyrannosaurus. This dinosaur had many problems, such as infection, bone damage and others which likely led to its death. And Sue is 66 million years old.

_________________________________________________________

Now, on to the reply for another post:

I didnt ask any evolution of biological reference,I just ask how did Big-Bang Happen? wat causes Big-Bang?

There is a lot of work on this but the current scientific understanding is quantum fluctuations.

Why are you moving from one topic to another? This seems like a red herring fallacy to me.

If you are really that interested, the video I've referenced you to explains it rather neatly and better than I could (given that he's an astrophysicist).

I'am not jumping to anther topic, ths is within topic, check again, its included my friend in post before this. That video does;nt show what causes Big-Bang.
If you have answer, give me here, rather than letting me watch video.

The video does talk about what caused the big bang. That's a lie...and if you haven't yet watched it, how can you even make the claim? It is, afterall, nearly an hour long. I've noticed this in other threads too...you like to lie.

The ultimate origin of the universe makes no difference to evolution - evolution is a verifiable fact and it would happen in a steady-state universe just as much in an expanding one (as it has done).

Ok, lets believe you its a fact, how this fact happen? wat action causes this to happen?

Natural selection, Adaptation, genetic mutation and genetic drift

Natural selection is the process by which heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive and successfully reproduce become more common in a population over successive generations. It is a key mechanism of evolution.

Mutations are changes in the DNA sequence of a cell's genome and are caused by radiation, viruses, transposons and mutagenic chemicals, as well as errors that occur during meiosis or DNA replication.[1][2][3] They can also be induced by the organism itself, by cellular processes such as hypermutation.

Adaptation is the evolutionary process whereby a population becomes better suited to its habitat.[1][2] This process takes place over many generations,[3] and is one of the basic phenomena of biology.[4]

Genetic drift or allelic drift is the change in the relative frequency in which a gene variant (allele) occurs in a population due to random sampling and chance: The alleles in offspring are a random sample of those in the parents, and chance has a role in determining whether a given individual survives and reproduces. A population's allele frequency is the fraction of the gene copies that share a particular form.[1]

All very well understood mechanisms and wholly verifiable and demonstrable.

So what are those natural selections that cause mutation, adapdation etc etc? why no such thing is hapening now? why no chimp,Ape turning into human anymore?where does 1st Ape came from?
These are so many processes, and all different to each other, how much you are sure that either 1 , or all happen that made life begin on earth?

Evolution is happening. It happens pretty much all the time...

Because humans didn't come from chimps! We're cousins. What we came from is now gone.

How sure am I? 99.999999% sure - we can see Natural Selection happen in pretty much any population of any species on earth, we can see genetic mutation taking place all the time, adaptation too is perfectly verifiable. When you can actually see something happening, it's typically assuredly true. BUT that is not your question...again you've fallen into the misunderstanding that evolution = where life began. No, that's not right. How life began is not part of evolutionary theory. For that you need to look at Abiogenesis.

Again, on the origins of the universe click the "Universe from nothing" link in my signature and watch the lecture. The problem with the arguments you are forming is that they are so ignorant of the current understanding of the universe. I'm going to hazard a guess you don't know much about Quantum Mechanics, Dark Matter, Quantum Fluctuations and their implications on the universe. Most people don't...and if they did, they'd think about our universe a whole lot different than they do.

I know all these, I'am just asking you, to just explain me please, what causes Big-Bang?
Rather than answering, you are till now just giving remarks to my knowledge,
Ofcourse I know all these dats why I;am asking you, you said that you dont deny God, and you are saying also the other side of story, so whch 1 is true?

Have you watched the lecture yet? If you understand them you have your answer...so why are you asking me? It makes no sense - it's like you have an ulterior motive.

Is it hard to provide here that what cause Big-Bang to happen?

When it's so well described in that lecture, I find it curious that you won't watch it.

This animation should help you on your journey:



That is nothing.

And can you please stop messing up the BBCode? It takes forever to put your replies into a legible format.

[TrueReligion]

Yes I know wats the use of DNA , but can we transplant any organ from Ape,Chimps to human? example heart lungs? any1 did experiment?

You asked about the evidence for evolution, implying that only written documents would be valid proof. I responded with the fact that the evidence is in the DNA, among other things. Of course we cannot transplant an organ from one ape species to another. Heck, we cannot even transplant organs from just any human to another. They have to be closely matched for blood type and other stuff first.

I didnt said that I agreed on your assumption of DNA, and others , we are stil in discussion. But I just took 1 example of DNA. For transplant, I agree that we need to match blood type and other, but still human organ can be fit into other human, means something match. What about ape/chimp fitting to human?you said we ahve same DNA or something, so why we can;t do it?

Ofcourse I know, what im asking, from Bacteria why till now since thousands, millions of years, no living thing comes out? like animal/human?

How do you know if they did not? Evolution has not stopped.

so can you show me any animal/human/mamal, in recent years which came out from bacteria?

So we have conclusion here, that there should be 1 true religion, correct?

Almost. There could be at most one true religion.

What does basically a religion mean?

If time is limited, that means Universe came from some point, and will end at some point, so what cause Universe to start, and what will cause it to end?

The word cause implies time. The universe, time space matter and energy started at a point. There could be no cause, because a cause must come before the effect in time. A cause for the universe would have to come before the universe existed. But the universe contains all time. There cannot be a time before time.

So this means Big-Bang happen by itself?

So you mean Sir, that the atoms, molecules, protoplasm, DNA, envymes, proteins etc etc, came together to form a perfect living creature from the same process of stars and earth. but we dont have answer even that stars and earth came without source, right?

Not at all. Certain substances came together to form a rather fragile imperfect but self-replicating molecule. These self-replicating molecules, being quite imperfect, mutated quite freely. Some of the mutations were worse than useless and did not continue to self-replicate. Others happened to be more effective at self-replication.

Anyway, one step at a time big fellow. We do necessarily and admittedly have gaps in our knowledge. We do however, have lots of information about the formation of stars from hydrogen clouds. We even have information about the formation of hydrogen from the plasma. Our knowledge of the first 1/100,000,000,000 second is somewhat speculative.

But Sir, the science statement, that certain substane came together to form something, is based on what? what causes these things to come together and form something like universe, stars, etc etc? we are talking specificaly about that cause, we know all what are the ingredients of those things.

Yes, so everything since begining till now is working in perfect order, without any flaw. so how come it run from billions of years without flaw. can it happen by itself?

Yes, apparently. I still do not believe that it is flawless.

I gave you what flaw means here, and its proven that since all times, physical things we see in nature, are flawless.
Example sunrise and sunset, did they change their routine ever since?

[TrueReligion]

This is part of the reply I had made that messed up:

The flawed biology

TR, you have said in a couple of replies now that the living organisms that we see are "flawless" or "perfect". Well that just isn't true. Look at the number of defects humans have, alone. Do you wear - or do you know anyone who does wear - glasses? Do you or anyone you know have colour-blindness? Does anyone you know have or had a disease such as cancer or diabetes?

You then went on to talk about that humans are born "correct", implying that every human is born with each organ where it should be etc. Well firstly I can see you are trying to say that chance alone can't account for any such distribution....and it can't, but evolution is not chance! Second of all, not all humans are born properly. There are many congenital disorders where humans are born without all their organs...or with superfluous ones. Here is a list of congenital disorders.

So no, the world isn't perfect or flawless by any means; in fact, it bears all the hallmarks of a fight to survive. This has never been the case and perhaps one of the most high-profile case of this in palaeontology is Sue the Tyrannosaurus. This dinosaur had many problems, such as infection, bone damage and others which likely led to its death. And Sue is 66 million years old.

I think you made a great mess here by the term flawed use in earllier post, It was not to mention for human flaw in body, it was meant for nature, like can banana tree give mangoes? can sunrise and sunset be changed or reversed? Did elephant got legs of mouse ever?

_________________________________________________________

Now, on to the reply for another post:

I didnt ask any evolution of biological reference,I just ask how did Big-Bang Happen? wat causes Big-Bang?

There is a lot of work on this but the current scientific understanding is quantum fluctuations.

So you mean quantum fluctuations caused big-bang? what's the source for that? can be more specific?

Why are you moving from one topic to another? This seems like a red herring fallacy to me.

If you are really that interested, the video I've referenced you to explains it rather neatly and better than I could (given that he's an astrophysicist).

I'am not jumping to anther topic, ths is within topic, check again, its included my friend in post before this. That video does;nt show what causes Big-Bang.
If you have answer, give me here, rather than letting me watch video.

The video does talk about what caused the big bang. That's a lie...and if you haven't yet watched it, how can you even make the claim? It is, afterall, nearly an hour long. I've noticed this in other threads too...you like to lie.

Sorry, this you are giving is considered as personal attack, and no reply will be given to you.

The ultimate origin of the universe makes no difference to evolution - evolution is a verifiable fact and it would happen in a steady-state universe just as much in an expanding one (as it has done).

Ok, lets believe you its a fact, how this fact happen? wat action causes this to happen?

Natural selection, Adaptation, genetic mutation and genetic drift

Natural selection is the process by which heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive and successfully reproduce become more common in a population over successive generations. It is a key mechanism of evolution.

Mutations are changes in the DNA sequence of a cell's genome and are caused by radiation, viruses, transposons and mutagenic chemicals, as well as errors that occur during meiosis or DNA replication.[1][2][3] They can also be induced by the organism itself, by cellular processes such as hypermutation.

Adaptation is the evolutionary process whereby a population becomes better suited to its habitat.[1][2] This process takes place over many generations,[3] and is one of the basic phenomena of biology.[4]

Genetic drift or allelic drift is the change in the relative frequency in which a gene variant (allele) occurs in a population due to random sampling and chance: The alleles in offspring are a random sample of those in the parents, and chance has a role in determining whether a given individual survives and reproduces. A population's allele frequency is the fraction of the gene copies that share a particular form.[1]

All very well understood mechanisms and wholly verifiable and demonstrable.

So what are those natural selections that cause mutation, adapdation etc etc? why no such thing is hapening now? why no chimp,Ape turning into human anymore?where does 1st Ape came from?
These are so many processes, and all different to each other, how much you are sure that either 1 , or all happen that made life begin on earth?

Evolution is happening. It happens pretty much all the time...

Because humans didn't come from chimps! We're cousins. What we came from is now gone.

How sure am I? 99.999999% sure - we can see Natural Selection happen in pretty much any population of any species on earth, we can see genetic mutation taking place all the time, adaptation too is perfectly verifiable. When you can actually see something happening, it's typically assuredly true. BUT that is not your question...again you've fallen into the misunderstanding that evolution = where life began. No, that's not right. How life began is not part of evolutionary theory. For that you need to look at Abiogenesis.

How you can say that waht is gone is gone? means no more evolution is taking place? does'nt it contradicting your own statement, that evolution always continues?
Still, you are not giving precise reply, you are asked to give , that from where does human came? you are refering to apes as your cousins. now where does those apes come from?

Again, on the origins of the universe click the "Universe from nothing" link in my signature and watch the lecture. The problem with the arguments you are forming is that they are so ignorant of the current understanding of the universe. I'm going to hazard a guess you don't know much about Quantum Mechanics, Dark Matter, Quantum Fluctuations and their implications on the universe. Most people don't...and if they did, they'd think about our universe a whole lot different than they do.

I know all these, I'am just asking you, to just explain me please, what causes Big-Bang?
Rather than answering, you are till now just giving remarks to my knowledge,
Ofcourse I know all these dats why I;am asking you, you said that you dont deny God, and you are saying also the other side of story, so whch 1 is true?

Have you watched the lecture yet? If you understand them you have your answer...so why are you asking me? It makes no sense - it's like you have an ulterior motive.

Is it hard to provide here that what cause Big-Bang to happen?

When it's so well described in that lecture, I find it curious that you won't watch it.

This animation should help you on your journey:

That is nothing.

[/quote]

Every 1 knows that molecules, atoms etc etc are neccessary to form something, but question is only this, what source causes them to get form in a perfect way? Why you can;t answer this thing till now?

[Slopeshoulder]

By what arguments can a believer in the one true god demonstrate to an unbeliever that God does exist?

You'll know from my other posts that IMO the concepts of belief, existence, and demonstration are misplaced when it comes to "god."