goat wrote:TrueReligion wrote:goat wrote:TrueReligion wrote:goat wrote:
bring evidence for several writers of Quran, if those writes said they have writen from their own mind and logic:) debate requires proof please.
So you are agreeing Moses didnt wrote Torah right?>
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ ... _the_Koran
For those who are seeking the truth and are interested in the proofs behind Quran revelation by God and that Quran is not a human written text, they can refer to the related question below and the related link for more details.
However, it is enough to highlight few issues as follow:
1. Some historians claim that prophet Muhammad wrote the Quran by himself. Arguments against this claim are:
* Prophet Muhammad was an illiterate man who had no formal education in any science, language, religious or secular.
* Quran speaks about a variety of branches of science like: Astronomy, Embryology, Hydrology, Geology, Sociology, Psychology, Oceanography, Law etc. including lots of scientific statements tha were validated only recently and were not known in the time of the prophet.
*
It was not known about prophet Muhammad any scholarly tendencies or achievements until the age of forty (when he received the first verses of Quran). So, how this illiterate man suddenly brings about a book like the Quran including an ideological and religious revolution that changed history?
* Why prophet Muhammad (peace be on him), if he authored the Quran, honor the virgin Mary (May Allah be pleased with her), the mother of Jesus (peace be on him) as the best woman over all women on earth over all ages until day of judgment (an honor that even not offered by the bible) while not mentioning his own family members with a single word and even not mentioning any name of them.?
* If he had authored the Quran, why he didn't claim this authorship of Quran and consequently gaining higher prestige among his followers who may consider him as a God.
* Why he mentioned Quran verses that reprimand him (as that of chapter 33, verse 37 and chapter 80 verses 1-3) if he wrote Quran by himself?.
and also
Some Quranic experts attribute the Qur'an in its current form to post-7th Century alterations. The consensus is:
Independent scholars studying the Qur'an and Hadith, have concluded that the Islamic scripture was not revealed to just one man, but was a compilation of later redactions and editions formulated by a group of men, over the course of a few hundred years. The Qur'an which we read today is not that which was in existence in the mid-seventh century, but is a product of the eighth and ninth centuries. It was not conceived in Mecca or Medina, but in Baghdad. It was then and there that Islam took on its identity and became a religion. Consequently, the formative stage of Islam was not within the lifetime of Muhammad but evolved over a period of 300 years.
This consensus is due to the dubious origins of Islam and the Qur'an. This is the opinion of renowned scholars and professors of Islam, history, Arabic and many other fields. Among them: Dr. John Wansbrough (American historian who taught at London University's School of Oriental and African Studies), Professor Joseph Schacht (professor of Arabic and Islam at Columbia University in New York and a leading Western scholar of Islamic law), Dr. Patricia Crone (a scholar, author and historiographer of early Islamic history working at the Institute for Advance Study), R. Stephen Humphreys (professor of history and Islamic studies at the University of California at Santa Barbara), and Professor Andrew Rippin (professor of history and specialist in Islamic studies at the University of Victoria, B.C., Canada).
This is not evidence, wikianswers is not considered as authentic site, every1 knows this, its answers are user,based, any1 can go there and give answers:)
If you want to know Quran authenticity, read following by same nonmuslim schlars.
http://www.ilaam.net/Articles/AuthenticQuran.html
But you didnt answer yet, do you agree that Moses didnt wrote Torah?
Shrug.. You reject any source that you disagree with. Your bias is noted.
So you are agreeing on what wiki.answers tell you>? confirm me this please
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_wrote_the ... rote_Torah
The traditional view is that Moses was the author of the entire Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy). However, the Sources Theory, which states that the Pentateuch had several authors, is widely accepted by modern scholars and some Christians. After all, a late date for the Pentateuch does not undermine the message of the Bible. It is also important to note that nowhere in the Pentateuch does it claim to have been written by Moses so we must analyse the text to determine who probably wrote it. Just one citation is "Testament: the Bible and History", by John Romer (1996). However, some Christian organisations and their websites present a different view.
Some brief examples I have taken from the Bible support the scholarly view of the authorship of the Pentateuch. I have also provided a brief resume of each of the principal authors said to have written the Pentateuch.
Deuteronomy chapter 34 describes the death of Moses.and says that "not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses..." This could not have been written by Moses or even by any author until long after the establishment of a nation called Israel. If we explain this by saying that this chapter was added after the death of Moses, we leave open the question as to what else was added after the death of Moses.
The Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 have a slightly different wording to the same commandments in Deuteronomy 5. Exodus 20:11 also says that the Sabbath is in honour of the 7 days of creation; Deuteronomy 5:15 says that the Sabbath is in honour of the flight from Egypt. While these issues have no important theological consequences, it is not possible that the man who personally carved the commandments onto tablets would not even remember what he wrote. And if, as the author of the Pentateuch, he was not sure, he could have looked in the ark and read the tablets again.
There are also many 'doublets' where each author provided his own, separate version of the same event. We can be sure that had Moses had been the author, he would have chosen a preferred version and stuck with that one.
•The J (Yahwist) source always used 'YHVH' as the name for God and presents tradition from the point of view of the southern kingdom, Judah, using archaic Hebrew. J was a gifted storyteller who was especially interested in the human side of things and had his own characteristic vocabulary. J referred to Moses' father-in-law as Reuel or Hobab.
•The E (Elohist) source always used 'Elohim' as the name for God and presents tradition from the point of view of the northern kingdom, Israel, using archaic Hebrew. E referred to Moses' father-in-law as Jethro, a mistake that Moses himself could not have made.
•At some time around 650 BCE., J and E were combined by Judaean editors, producing a composite known to us as JE.
•The D (Deuteronomist) source emphasises centralisation of worship and governance in Jerusalem, as would be expected from political events that followed the defeat of Israel. It uses a more modern form of Hebrew.
•The P (Priestly) source uses both Elohim and El Shaddai as names of God and focusses on the formal relations between God and society. He also uses a late form of Hebrew, with a rather turgid style.
.So its clearly said that Moses didnt wrote Torah, whereas for Quran beside bias christian scholars, all agreed that it was writen in book form in the time ofMuhammad himself.
There is no valid proof that Quran was writen in 300 ad or from Iraq etc etc, its all same site which Apple_pie was describing, which is christian theory against muslims, therefore cannot be accepted by any1.
So now you agree that QURAN is send by GOD to Muhammad (pbuh) and was writen in same time of Prophet Muhammad?
