Tradition vs. Secularity & Inclusivity

Two hot topics for the price of one

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PDavs0
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Tradition vs. Secularity & Inclusivity

Post #1

Post by PDavs0 »

I believe that national documents (perhaps documents isn't the most fitting word, I am referring to things such as the national anthem, oaths & pledges etc.) containing references to gods and the divine, ought to be amended in the aim of increasing their applicability to all affected by the document.

I seek your input as it applies to the Canadian national anthem.
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.

Refrain

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
It has been suggested that the emphasized lines be amended to:
Our home and cherished land!
to avoid excluding foreign born Canadian citizens,
True patriot love in all of us command.
to remove the obvious sexism,

and an as yet undetermined amendment to the refrain in the interest of replacing the plea to the divine with something more secular.

What are your thoughts? Is this an unnecessary attack on tradition, or is this a fair modernization of a slightly outdated part of the nation.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same god who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

-Galileo Galilei

Humanist Manifesto II

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alxolex
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Re: Tradition vs. Secularity & Inclusivity

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Post by alxolex »

PDavs0 wrote:I believe that national documents (perhaps documents isn't the most fitting word, I am referring to things such as the national anthem, oaths & pledges etc.) containing references to gods and the divine, ought to be amended in the aim of increasing their applicability to all affected by the document.[...]
What are your thoughts? Is this an unnecessary attack on tradition, or is this a fair modernization of a slightly outdated part of the nation.
The English version of the anthem has already been amended a few times in the past (last version: 1970), so I don't think we should talk about "an unnecessary attack on tradition". I support the amendment of national documents containing references to God and the divine, but not just for inclusiveness or applicability to the people it refers to. I would go a step further. Canada should apply the principles of freedom of religion, conscience and thought to how it runs its affairs and remove all religious references. No crucifix in parliament or courtrooms, no opening prayers in the House of Commons, no references to God or religion in the national anthem, etc. The government and all its representatives should be neutral regarding beliefs and religion, and the best way to do so is to have an explicitly secular government that would respect a Canadian Charter of Secularism. Then the separation of Church and State would be complete.

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alxolex
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Re: Tradition vs. Secularity & Inclusivity

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Post by alxolex »

PDavs0 wrote: It has been suggested that the emphasized lines be amended to:
Our home and cherished land!
to avoid excluding foreign born Canadian citizens,
and also out of respect to Canada's native peoples, from whom the French and after them the British have stolen the lands, and to whom the Canadian government (past and present) has refused any fair treatment or compensation.

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McCulloch
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Post #4

Post by McCulloch »

Personally, I'm not opposed to vague references to a non-specified God in historic documents or anthems.

While you're purging, why not remove DG from our coins ?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Miles
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Post #5

Post by Miles »

I fail to see the sexism in "True patriot love in all of us command." Granted that patriotism is often seen as best expressed in the physical defensive of a country, which has been almost exclusively the job of males, but this is not the only expression of it. I think true patriotism has its seat in the the heart of a person and not in any particular outward expression. However, I can see a valid objection to the recognition of a god.

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