Another abortion topic.

[Coyotero]

One true life example of Christian theology possibly influencing the murder of innocent children:

The Bible teaches that you are an immortal soul. Your soul is eternal and will live forever. In other words, the real you -- the part of you that thinks, feels, dreams, aspires; the ego, the personality-- will never die. The Bible teaches that your soul will live forever in one of two places -- heaven or hell. If you are not a Christian and you have never been born again, then the Bible teaches that your soul goes immediately to a place Jesus called hades, where you will await the judgment of God. The moment a Christian dies, he goes immediately into the presence of Christ. There his soul awaits the resurrection, when the soul and body will be rejoined.

God, in His mercy and love, watches over little children who are taken by death, and they go to be with Him in heaven.

These were their innocent years. God would take them up.

This raises the question, if dying as an innocent child spares one from a lifetime of sin and wickedness, and potentially an eternity in hell, why aren't more Christians pro-abortion?

[Scotracer]

This is something that got to me a while back. It didn't make any sense why Christians would be against murder at all. I mean, if the person was good (and to them didn't deserve death?) they would go to heaven - apparently a place of eternal bliss...well, why isn't murder promoted? Same with suicide? It seems to me to be a contradiction in intent.

Also doesn't god determine every day of your life before your birth?* As such, isn't the doctor that carries out the abortion (or a person killing someone else) not doing anything contrary to what god intended? Is it possible to break god's intent/laws/whatever?

*"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

[theAtheistofnoIllusions]

You don't really exist, or at least, you won't after you die.

So if I killed you right now, you wouldn't mind, you wouldn't be here to mind.

Why would you stop me from killing you?

[Coyotero]

When someone tries to kill me I kill them right back.

[ConfinedIX]

This raises the question, if dying as an innocent child spares one from a lifetime of sin and wickedness, and potentially an eternity in hell, why aren't more Christians pro-abortion?

Now I speak for myself and what I have seen from my Christian family.

I know my family is against abortion. They believe the act of ending a life, though it technically not born into the world yet, is wrong.

I however, am pro-abortion. If a woman undergoes pregnancy from consensual sex or rape I believe that the choice is up to the woman.

Now, I know some are going to be thinking how can you condone it if the sex was consensual? Well, let me explain. My belief is a two sided blade. I believe that if woman is pregnant via consent or rape it is ultimately her choice, although I strongly encourage woman to put the child(s) in an adoption facility where the child(s) might be adopted by a couple who is infertile (ex: if they are financially unfit to care for a child: providing proper clothing, diapers, food, ect).

[theAtheistofnoIllusions]

When someone tries to kill me I kill them right back.

Indeed. And you would have societies backing (most likely). But you are still a killer, and possibly a killer of a man who has not killed, but merely attempted to. One man died either way.

So now the question is this:

If I brought before you a man. He has repeatedly stolen from me. I want him dead.

You say no.

Why? He is a thief, and would the world really be so worse for one less thief? You have already said that there are times when killing is not wrong (self defense, I assume you believe that "just" wars are ok, etc.) And we have already established that he will either:

A) Go to heaven
or
B) not exist
or
C) some other weird thing that probably isn't so bad, how bad could it be?

Many cultures before ours would say I am completely right for killing him.

Why don't we kill people?

Answer to that question is the answer to your original question.

/thread.

[realthinker]

You don't really exist, or at least, you won't after you die.

So if I killed you right now, you wouldn't mind, you wouldn't be here to mind.

Why would you stop me from killing you?

Think, just for half a second here. You've just exhibited the entirely STUPID response that equates the acceptance of an impersonal result with having no preference.

How many reasons can YOU come up with for not wishing to be dead? Is there only one, and that single based entirely on the supposition of a pleasurable afterlife?

If that's the case, why aren't you looking for a way to die? Why aren't those believing in a glorious after life fool-hardy risk takers? Why do so many Christians still go to doctors when they may face a legitimate path to heaven?

If that's not the case, why didn't you think farther than your silly posting here and come up with a brighter idea?

[theAtheistofnoIllusions]

How many reasons can YOU come up with for not wishing to be dead? Is there only one, and that single based entirely on the supposition of a pleasurable afterlife?
?

Did you even read my post? Obviously not because you responded with nonsense.

Let me explain my position to you, grasshopper, as I think you need schooling.

If I killed you one of 3 things will happen:

1) You will go to heaven (yah! The christians were right!)
2) You will be and do nothing (yay! the "atheists" were right!)
3) Somehting else (can't be too bad)

So really there are no BAD outcomes, and there is a good chance that you will get something great!

So why don't you want me to kill you? Because you don't want to die?

Same thing with Christians. They don't want to die. We have no reason to believe that death will be bad or harmful to us, but still EVERY person fears and fights against death. Inculding the Christians, including you, (btw, READING COMPREHENSION. its your friend) including every person alive.

No one wants to die. Whether or not it will lead us to good times and candy palaces, we STILL don't want to die.

Next time you feel like getting all pquedo-intellectual and making a fool out of yourself, think about who you are responding to.

[realthinker]

How many reasons can YOU come up with for not wishing to be dead? Is there only one, and that single based entirely on the supposition of a pleasurable afterlife?
?

Did you even read my post? Obviously not because you responded with nonsense.

I read it perfectly well. Your first two statements I agree with entirely. When you die there is nothing remaining of your identity. There is nothing to express a preference with respect to the condition.

Let me explain my position to you, grasshopper, as I think you need schooling.

If I killed you one of 3 things will happen:

1) You will go to heaven (yah! The christians were right!)
2) You will be and do nothing (yay! the "atheists" were right!)
3) Somehting else (can't be too bad)

So really there are no BAD outcomes, and there is a good chance that you will get something great!

If you're going to include the first, you cannot stop at three. There are plenty of just as plausible death stories out there. So, include at least a fourth, that Christianity is false and some other religion is correct and Christians suffer the consequence of a life of active, willful blasphemy.

So why don't you want me to kill you? Because you don't want to die?

Because I don't want to die is the same thing as saying I don't want you to kill me. It's not a reason. You've said nothing here.

Same thing with Christians. They don't want to die. We have no reason to believe that death will be bad or harmful to us, but still EVERY person fears and fights against death. Inculding the Christians, including you, (btw, READING COMPREHENSION. its your friend) including every person alive.

No one wants to die. Whether or not it will lead us to good times and candy palaces, we STILL don't want to die.

You've still said nothing here. You're still saying that people don't want to die. You've not even touched on a reason. And you haven't said anything about why your question isn't stupid.

Next time you feel like getting all pquedo-intellectual and making a fool out of yourself, think about who you are responding to.

You haven't in any of this suggested a reason. You've restated over and over that people don't want to die. But you've not given a reason. You've not even tried to make an argument. Why, if your question deserves any merit, haven't you explained why you feel that question is meaningful?

The question you posed at the end of your post asked why someone who accepts that one's identity is destroyed upon death would try to prevent one's death. That suggests that you can't comprehend that life without promise of eternal manifestation of identity is preferable to non-existence.

You asked why someone not anticipating anything beyond death would prefer life. It's a stupid question that only someone who prefers to dismiss any point of view but their own would ask.

[micatala]

Moderator Intervention

I will ask realthinker and THeatheistofnoillusions to avoid comments like those made in Posts #6 and 7 above. Leave out the personal remarks and stick to debating the topic at hand.