Islam

[canadianhorsefan]

Well, just want to see if anyone is interested why Islam is right.

canadianhorsefan

[McCulloch]

Abolition. Christian movement or not?

Abolition. A movement by Christians (some of them not very orthodox, Quakers, Shakers, Unitarians) and others against other Christians who held slaves.

[AlAyeti]

Though a little non-sequitur hike we took, but a perfect place to look at Islam.

Christians challenge each other within the walls of their own faith. The KKK and White Supremists (very current-day Muslim-like in their scripture twisting), have been challenged by Christians who read the Bible and have had the words of Jesus change their very souls.

Actions speak louder than words.

Christians read the words of Jesus. And the words of Paul to Philemon.

Philemon was a rich slave owner. Paul handles this guy with the most amazing and skillful tact you could ever read. It is books like Philemon that make the assumption that the Bible is fairy-tales absolutely wrong.

This thread subject of Islam, Truth or Lies, hangs on what the Bible says and what the Koran says.

The two say absolutely different things about the same people and events.

Abraham-Isaac.

Jesus-Crucified.

Biblical and not Koranic.

It is time for Muslim's to challenge the Koran and Muslim's that mishandle the truth.

I don't see any reason to continue the round and round of any other point.

The question is not, is Islam a lie or true? But why did Mohammad get a wrong message from an Angel of God about things already settled in already written documents?

If Mohammad gets off the hook by changing revelation whenever a new visitation comes to a prophet, then Mormons are right as well, to their different Jesus and God and all. And since Joseph Smith is the later prophet, than we should all junk the old Books for the fanciful stories in the Book of Mormon, Pearl of great Price and Doctrine and Covenants.

All the word from God.

Wait a minute hold the press. Who is that knocking at my front door?

Could be the latest monotheistic faith!

[youngborean]

It is time for Muslim's to challenge the Koran and Muslim's that mishandle the truth.

There are some Muslim scholars that engage in this. However, they do become the targets of fatwas etc. Although there may be a desire for this, there is still a long way to go around some of the basic assumptions that are taught and instructed even in Mainstream north American Islam. There is a great book by a female Muslim author Irshad Manji called "The Trouble with Islam". In it she challenges some of the fundamental teachings that have creeped into even mainstream Islam, the most significant being the teaching of a Jewish conspiracy to control the West and an elite class of wealthy Jews. Although she has now been a target of threats, she personally advocates any voice to come foward and admit assumptions that are lies and to challenge traditional (Hadith-based)scholarship of the Koran. After a personal discussion with her she admitted the possibility of a reform Islam (a la Judaism) possibly sprouting in the near future.

[AlAyeti]

Awesome.

Peaceful Muslim's not opposing diversity will mean the salvation of millions.

Your post is a good way to end this discussion.

[MagusYanam]

A good post, youngborean. I had posted a link to an interview with an Islamic reformer (Shirin Ebadi), and it's good to see she's not alone in her interpretation of the Qur'an, or of what Islam should be.

I admit that much of Islam has a long way to go before it can be considered progressive and peace-affirming, but then again, much of American Protestantism also has a long way to go before it embraces a more progressive and peace-affirming religious polity. I think personally, however, that the road to a reformed Islam began with the creation of a secular state by Sunni Muslims (Turkey) - and that people like Ms. Ebadi and Ms. Manji are the latest manifestation of this trend toward Islamic liberalisation. It is indeed unfortunate that people like Usama bin Laden are holding Islam back so far.

Again, though (for the umpteenth time) - the presence of reformers in Islam (like Ms. Manji) is something to note and take this away from: Islam is not monolithic, and it is capable of reform.

[youngborean]

I totally agree. But I admit that it is paramount when reformers speak out that people listen to what they are saying. Irshad Manji has been the target of many accusations becuase she goes against many people who are inherently anti-US etc. Her addmission of the problems in Islam is uncomfortable for many who just want the status-quo to continue so they can present an evil-imperialist empire vs innocent muslim ideologies. Every extreme viewpoint on both sides seems to be pushed to the middle in order to drum up rhetoric for a particular side. This is where we get these insane analogies that create a moral equivalent for all actions. A classic example of this is the comparison of Bush to Hitler. I personally believe that the facts our there on every side. If we hear a islamic reformer say something that doesn't necessarily equate with our preconcieved political views, we should not squealch their efforts. Becasue they are brave attempts to achieve freedom. (I don't mean any of this in a millitary sense whatsoever)

[fonso]

deleted - double post

[fonso]

deleted - double post

[fonso]

Here's a link to a scary and somewhat twisted assessment of Islam:
http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

There is a great book by a female Muslim author Irshad Manji called "The Trouble with Islam". In it she challenges some of the fundamental teachings that have creeped into even mainstream Islam, the most significant being the teaching of a Jewish conspiracy to control the West and an elite class of wealthy Jews. Although she has now been a target of threats, she personally advocates any voice to come foward and admit assumptions that are lies and to challenge traditional (Hadith-based)scholarship of the Koran. After a personal discussion with her she admitted the possibility of a reform Islam (a la Judaism) possibly sprouting in the near future.

Manji is truly exceptional.

Irshad Manji's official website. A very interesting read.

http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/letters.html

It appears that Christianity and Islam have very much in common after all.

[Deqsan]

"Well, just want to see if anyone is interested why Islam is right."

"Do you belive in Allah(God)?"

The poll asks one question, and then it's followed by a rather stark assuption that whoever voted yes would therefore be making a statement that Islam is right!

As a Christian and taking the Arabic word for God (Allah) I could answer the question as 'yes!', but really the question should be , "Do you believe in the God of Islam?"

I will say straightaway, my knowledge of the Qur'an is limited, but what I do know from recent investigation raises some interesting questions:

Yes! I believe in Allah (God) and His Son Isa (Jesus Christ the Messiah) and that there seems enough evidence in the Qur'an, to show Jesus is who he said He is, the Qur'an confirms the revalations that went before it (Sura 10:37).

Isa (Jesus the Messiah, "elevated above all creatures") is upheld as a prophet by Muslims, why then do Muslims ignore His teachings and disobey His word? In the Qur'an, Isa is reported as saying:"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me." (Qur'an 3:50).



What the Qur'an says about Isa (Jesus)!
1. Obey Jesus Christ (Sura 43 Zukhruf:63)
2. Isa: Jesus Christ is the author of creation (Sura Malda:113, 114). Who can be the author of creation except God Himself?
3.Jesus is coming again. (Sura 43 Zukhruf:61)
4.Word of Allah (Sur 3 Al-i-imran 45)
5.Spirit from Him (Sura 4 Nisaa:171)
6.Virgin birth (Sura 19 Maryam 20,21) and Mary's miraculous pregnancy (Sura 21 Anblyaa91)
7.Preached since childhood (Sura 3, Al-i-imran:46)
8.Led people to the truth (Sura 3, Al-i-imran:49)
9.Raised the dead (Sura 3,Al-i-imran 49)
10.He is blessed (Sura 19 Maryam:30,31)
11.Sinless nature (Sura 19 Maryam:17,19)
12.Knew the future (Sura 43 Zukhruf:61,63)
13.Mediator (Sura39 Zumar:44)
14.Jesus died (Sura 3,Al-i-imran:55)
15.Jesus resurrected (Sura3 Al-i-imran:55)
16.Jesus ascended after death ( (Sura 3 Al-i-imran:55)

With this evidence from the Qur'an, which confirms what the Book (Holy Bible) says about Him (Isa, Jesus), I would have to say I believe in Allah (God), but not the Allah that Islam today teaches, which goes against it's own word (Qur'an),Torah (Old Testament),and, Injil (New Testament).

If you are in doubt, as to what we have revealed unto you, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before you. (Sura X Yunus :94)