Jesus is a superior prophet to Mohammed

[Yolande]

The Koran agrees that Jesus was born from a virgin and Mohammed was not

The Koran agrees that Jesus did miracles but makes no mention of any miracles Mohammed did

The Koran agrees that a prophet can never lie. Jesus called Himself Son of God and even God Himself on many occasions and also accepted worship from people.

The Koran agrees that Jesus is the Messiah and Mohammed is not.

So, from this, it must be concluded that Jesus is a superior prophet than Mohammed.

[Goat]

Elle,
I include reference from scripture that the bible tells us Jesus is God. Not just the son of God.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

Debate by link?


How about taking a few of them, and let's looking at those passages in cultural and scriptural context, and doing an analsyis of the original greek and/or aremeic?

[McCulloch]

[...] the bible tells us Jesus is God.

I don't know what you mean by that. You see a statement in the form X is Y can have various meanings.

1. Samuel Langhorne Clemens is [was] Mark Twain.
   This indicates identity. Wherever you use the first term, you can substitute the second term without changing the meaning of the sentence.
2. Elizabeth is the Queen of Canada.
   This indicates role. There is only one Queen of Canada and Elizabeth is currently in that role. She has other roles, Queen of England, Mother of Charles, Defender of the Faith, etc. And others will and have had that role.
3. McCulloch is human.
   This indicates category. There are several other humans, but category does not necessarily exclude a category of one.
4. My car is red.
   This indicates some attribute.

I am sure that there are more, but when a believer asserts that Jesus is God, I don't quite know what it is that they are intending to mean.

Do you mean that Jesus is identical with God? That whenever you say God, you could without any changes in meaning say Jesus?
Or do you mean that Jesus has the role of God? That is that Jesus is a human spirit which has been chosen to be God for the Christians?
Or do you mean that Jesus is Divine? Please explain to me what you mean.

[elle]

Ok. I get your point. Let me be more spesific to your arguments:

Even assuming that this was supposed to be accepted as literal truth (which I don't think it was), why would a virgin birth make someone a superior prophet?

Jesus is more than a prophet. The virgin birth supports the argument that he is born of God and has no sin.

I see how the argument can be made that his virgin birth supports that his birth was a miracle. I do not see how that necessarily makes him God.

Mohammad's greatest miracle, from my limited understanding, is that he was given the revelation of the Qur'an which is a holy book of god. This would certainly qualify as a miracle were it true. There are some who also interpret the Qur'an to attribute the miracle of splitting the moon to him. A quick Google search listed the following as other miracles Mohammad performed: the flowing of water from his fingers, the blessing of food allowing large numbers of people to eat from small quantities, healing of the sick, exorcising demons, and serving as a mediator for prayers from the people to god. These miracles are not explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an to my knowledge, but they are mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari which is one of the major Islamic books and esteemed along with and almost as highly as the Qur'an in some circles. Mohammed very clearly performed miracles according to Islamic tradition.

It may be so that other books attributed miracles to Mohammed. I was spesifically referring to the account of the Qur'an. There are many miracles that was recorded about Jesus as well, which is not in the bible.

And Jesus is not the author of the Bible. So it makes sense that the two holy books would have different perspectives. This is far from evidence in support of your claim.

The Koran agrees that a prophet can never lie. Jesus called Himself Son of God and even God Himself on many occasions and also accepted worship from people.

I will say that it is very, very debatable whether Jesus ever called himself God the Son. I disagreed with this as did the church ministry I was raised in and there are legitimate reasons to dispute this interpretation of the Bible.

As far as calling himself the Son of God, I reference Romans 8 in the New International Version of the Protestant Bible:

13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.[g] And by him we cry, "Abba,[h] Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Source: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?bo ... version=31
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica


I added the bold for emphasis. I think that there is evidence for a viewpoint that Jesus was a prophet and worthy of esteem, but not the final authority on the subject of god.

The eye witnesses's accounts in the 4 Gospels all agrees that Jesus called Himself the Son of God, even God, and accepted worship.

Jesus was the firstfruit of the Father.
He "sowed" Him like a kernal to the ground, that died and rose again, bringing to the Father a harvest of many sons in Him.

Jesus is thus now our elder brother as well as our redeemer, although He also is God. I am a son of God like is explained in Romans 8, by the grace of God, through the sacrifice of Jesus.
But Jesus is still God and to be worshipped and adored.

[/quote]

I agree that the gospels say that Jesus called himself the son of god. I do not agree that they are eyewitness and accurate accounts, especially John. I do agree that according to the Bible Jesus was worshiped by some but I do not think this means that he was to be worshiped as god. I think that he was intended to be respected and revered as a prophet. Additionally I do not remember Jesus ever asking anyone to worship him, only god the father.

I agree that the Bible says that Jesus made a great sacrifice and that if the account is to be read literally, that he was a terrific martyr for his religion. This does not make him better than anyone else though. Doesn't your god say he is no respecter of persons in Acts 10:34? (See the KJV.) If Jesus was a man and an esteemed prophet it seems logical to me that god would honor him for his sacrifice but not say that he was superior to Mohammad because of it. Mohammad had a different gift and calling.

[muhammad rasullah]

The point is, that when we compare Mohammed with Jesus, Jesus is much more impressive than Mohammed.

The Quran was not a miracle. It was a book I believe Mohammed wrote himself, copying parts from the bible and making things up as it suits him.

The bible is a set of books that was written over thousands of years by dozens of authors, which all forms a beautiful whole. The bible in itself is a miracle.

The bible is no miracle. If so what is miraculous about it? A mirace is an extraordinary event which surpasses all human or supernatural powers and is ascribed to God. You sad yourself that the bible was written by men...what's miraculous about that. There is nothing in the bible I have seen that would have me believe that it is a miracle.

The bible is a set of books with unknown authors. If the bible is so miraculous then name all of its authors for every book, that would be a miracle!

It is well known in history that the prophet Muhammad as illiterate he could not read or write so your claim that he himself wrote the quran is easily refuted. Second the Quran gives the source of who the author is in Surah 55: 1-2 "((Allah)) Most Gracious! It is He Who has taught the Qur'an."

Does the bible even say who wrote it?
In islam we are told not to compare the prophets to one another.
2:136 (Y. Ali) Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

Besides if we were to judge what criteria would we use Allah knows best. What you are doing is exactly what the people of old did when they saw the miracles of Jesus raising him higher as a God and the son of God. When Jesus an't be God and it ill befits God that he should have a son with no consort.

[Goat]

The point is, that when we compare Mohammed with Jesus, Jesus is much more impressive than Mohammed.

The Quran was not a miracle. It was a book I believe Mohammed wrote himself, copying parts from the bible and making things up as it suits him.

The bible is a set of books that was written over thousands of years by dozens of authors, which all forms a beautiful whole. The bible in itself is a miracle.

The bible is no miracle. If so what is miraculous about it? A mirace is an extraordinary event which surpasses all human or supernatural powers and is ascribed to God. You sad yourself that the bible was written by men...what's miraculous about that. There is nothing in the bible I have seen that would have me believe that it is a miracle.

The bible is a set of books with unknown authors. If the bible is so miraculous then name all of its authors for every book, that would be a miracle!

It is well known in history that the prophet Muhammad as illiterate he could not read or write so your claim that he himself wrote the quran is easily refuted. Second the Quran gives the source of who the author is in Surah 55: 1-2 "((Allah)) Most Gracious! It is He Who has taught the Qur'an."

Does the bible even say who wrote it?
In islam we are told not to compare the prophets to one another.
2:136 (Y. Ali) Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

Besides if we were to judge what criteria would we use Allah knows best. What you are doing is exactly what the people of old did when they saw the miracles of Jesus raising him higher as a God and the son of God. When Jesus an't be God and it ill befits God that he should have a son with no consort.

The real miracle is that people take the word of a book for the book itself. The koran is no better than the bible, and it certainly is misused as much as the bible, if not more.

[Coyotero]

The Koran agrees that Jesus was born from a virgin and Mohammed was not

Your point? Virginity is an outdated primitive idea and not a form of virtue. It's simply another way for society to denigrate and browbeat women into subjugation.

The Koran agrees that Jesus did miracles but makes no mention of any miracles Mohammed did

He united many disparate tribes after centuries of war... Pretty miraculous.

The Koran agrees that a prophet can never lie. Jesus called Himself Son of God and even God Himself on many occasions and also accepted worship from people.

And...?

The Koran agrees that Jesus is the Messiah and Mohammed is not.

I believe this is correct, but my knowledge of the Koran is admittedly limited. From what I understand the Muslims view Jesus as the Messiah. That is to say, as the savior of the Jewish tribes. Neither I nor the Muslim people at large are Jewish tribesmen, so we really don't need to follow their particular messiah.

So, from this, it must be concluded that Jesus is a superior prophet than Mohammed.

Why and how? There is no basis for this argument. Both are great leaders of their respected people, so why rob Mohammad of his greatness so that you can claim your tribal deity is a better person? Can't Jesus' greatness stand on its own?

Another example, I could try to point out that Odin is a greater leader than Jesus, but it's a moot point, you're talking about different faiths and pantheons, both have their merits within their own belief system, and would be out of place outside of it.

[Scotracer]

This entire thread is missing the entire point - talk about sidestepping a puddle to fall off a cliff.

"Superiority" in terms of a story character has no bearing on its existence in reality.

[Haiku Ronin]

The Koran agrees that a prophet can never lie. Jesus called Himself Son of God and even God Himself on many occasions and also accepted worship from people.
So, from this, it must be concluded that Jesus is a superior prophet than Mohammed
****
Yea but jesus asked his followers to hide the fact he was the son of god which is a lie therefore jesus can not be a true prophet,
anyways Buddha has em both beat

[muhammad rasullah]

The Koran agrees that a prophet can never lie. Jesus called Himself Son of God and even God Himself on many occasions and also accepted worship from people.
So, from this, it must be concluded that Jesus is a superior prophet than Mohammed
****
Yea but jesus asked his followers to hide the fact he was the son of god which is a lie therefore jesus can not be a true prophet,
anyways Buddha has em both beat

Okay where in the bible does Jesus claim to be God? you won't find that statement. where in the bible was Jesus worshipped in a way that is only exclusively for God? you won't find that. It cannot be proven absolutely that jesus said he was the son of God! Because the sources which the bible uses cannot be traced back to there original writers.

[Haiku Ronin]

Okay where in the bible does Jesus claim to be God? you won't find that statement. bible uses cannot be traced back to there original writers.[/quote]

Matthew 16:20 "Then he warned the disciples that they should tell no one that he was the son of god"
So omitting the truth is pretty much the same as telling a lie. And if a prophet can't lie, then I guess he wasen't a very good one. And if telling a lie is a sin then I guess Jesus wasent without sin.
I'm pretty sure that some of the books in the Bible can be traced back to the original author.