Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

[perfessor]

http://www.wlos.com/

I don't get it. Didn't Jesus ply his trade among tax collectors, prostitutes, and other "sinners"?

East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.

So my question for debate: Should the East Waynesville Baptist Church lose its tax-exempt status?

I say they should, since the pastor has turned the church into an arm of the Republican party.

[bernee51]

That is almost a perfect description to what is happening today in Liberal America. Except, the Liberals are regulating death, enslaving the poor and addicted and pricing the lower class out of every liberal dominated city in the country. Sodom and Gomorrah whether Lot's Abraham's or Ezekiel's.

New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. The Democrats are the party of Nero and Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, blah, blah, blah etc., etc..

...Can you say End Times? Just around the corner are two Angels making their way down mainstreet USA. And of course seeing the exact same kind of people they saw in Sodom.

I have a sister living in the US and was planning to visit...you description has caused me to change my mind.

This and the fact that all visitors have to be photographed and fingerprinted on entry to the US - how do you say "Police State"

Besides I'm an atheist and the religious police at the border will be able to tell and before you know it I'll be in one of your gulags (or worse).

I don't want to get caught up in your End Times - sounds pretty nasty.

J
But, certainly as soon as Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery to "Go and sin no more," the ACLU would have sued Him for discrimination and civil rights violations, with the "Reverend" Jesse Jackson leading a march against the Lord.

If I remember correctly Jesus was a bit of a hippy - fighting the establishment...I would have thought he would have been up front chanting and carrying a placard right next to the Rev. Jesse.

And even Sodomy has fallen to the Liberals and while they pass laws to sexualize our children, their lawyers are working feverishly to outlaw Christians.

Empirical evidence exists I presume?

Why is it, every time I use the plain label of "sexual deviant behavior," everyone posts a reply about my views on homosexuality?

Because you are a self confessed bigot?

That would seem reason enough.


(Remember - you admitted to bigotry - should I post the link?)

[Jose]

Gosh, Al. I kinda stopped following this thread for a while, because it seemed to be pretty much a diatribe against pederasts and the evil democrats. It seems still to be going along the same lines.

I wonder whether you can tell us just what defines "moral" behavior or "family values." Are the republicans the champions of fair treatment for all? You might find it amusing to read about Tom Delay's enforcement of slavery in the US garment industry (also descrubed here. And this guy's a real good republican.

Good ol' Cheney is also a real good republican...you know about his pheasant hunt? We really wouldn't want to consider hunting as a way of obtaining food; it's really much more fun just to kill things.

I guess killing things for fun and enslaving women so they can make cheap garments is a fine, up-standing, American ideal, full of family values. It must be, since it seems to be championed by the Bush Administration. It's improved, of course, by forcing the women to get abortions if they get pregnant--obviously, they can't work as hard if they're pregnant or have small kids. This is stuff the current republican forces are actively carrying out!

And yet, you seem to think that people like MagusYanam are evil because

The reasons I am a Democrat are a.) Democrats are the only ones who give half a damn about making sure businesses don't rape the economy and rape the environment, b.) the Democratic party is the only one which takes kindly to Christian pacifism and principles of non-aggression, c.) the Democrats at least pretend to be interested in what happens to the lower classes of society and d.) only the Democratic candidates were ever against the war in Iraq.

None of these goals are evil - in fact, all of them are admirable. But if I were a Baptist, I wouldn't be able to set foot in this church because, what? Because I'm an environmentalist? Because I think the Iraq war was a bad and ill-considered idea? Because I think that social justice includes some consideration of the distribution of wealth? What the heck kind of church throws someone out on these matters of conscience?

Those nasty democrats! Y'know, it worries me a lot that someday, the general public will wake up and figure out the extent of environmental destruction and wealth redistribution that has been put into law by the current administration, and they'll want to do something about it. Unfortunately, they will have few people to blame, since it was their own political champions who were responsible. The laws will have been passed, the judges will be in their life terms, the Big Guys will be in charge, the Hereditary Rich will have returned, and all us ordinary folks--Christians included--will find ourselves wondering what hit us.

That is almost a perfect description to what is happening today in Liberal America. Except, the Liberals are regulating death, enslaving the poor and addicted and pricing the lower class out of every liberal dominated city in the country. Sodom and Gomorrah whether Lot's Abraham's or Ezekiel's
....

Why is it, every time I use the plain label of "sexual deviant behavior," everyone posts a reply about my views on homosexuality? I just mean deviant sexual behavior, plain and simple. Unnatural is unnatural, no matter by who, what, or where the parts are misused.

It might be amusing to compare your statement about "liberals enslaving the poor" with the actual situation that Delay has ensured in the Marianas. It's not the liberals doing the enslaving, it's the Big Business folks, with republican support. You are, of course, free to pretend it isn't so, and you are also free to fantasize about all sorts of weird sex acts in your spare time. But, isn't it possible that spending so much time thinking about other people's sex might be causing you to miss some of the important things that are actually going on in the world?

[AlAyeti]

Democrats are Pederasts every bit as much as Republicans are big business greedy b-----ds.

I am not a Republican. And I could never be a Democrat while the support the murder of our children and the sexualizing of the ones lucky enough to get the opportunity of life.

Please visit any juvenile hall or homeless shelters for the children of a liberal licentious lifestyle. The numbers of fatherless children ending up in "the system" dominated by liberals who keep them enslaved and dependent on "the system" can only be missed by those blinded by liberalism. That is to say, Democrats.

If promiscuous women cared as much about their true worth instead of breast implants and and careless carefree sex, then they would have to worry about the choice to kill their unborn children for the convenience to have an unimpeded flow of irresponsible sexual activity.

If people who want to make a "culture" out of aberrant sexual behavior want to be viewed as just average folk, then the news is average folk do not equate their sex acts with who and what they are as a definition of "culture." Decency exists to all but the sexually perverted it seems.

I do not care what ADULT people do in private, natural or unnatural. But when they want to proclaim the unnatural as normal, than it is not bigotry that tells them to go away, but decency. When sexual deviates come into the schools and take control of children to sell them perversion in a pretty diversity package, then I get involved. Like this Pastor.

The Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered organizations (LGBT) went too far in demanding to include "Questioning Youth," in their "outreach" endeavors. Any sane person would see the Pederasty inherent in the movement to reach our children with the message of unchecked sexual deviance. It's bad enough that pedophiles hide under the radar in churches and other safe havens, should we allow a wanton declaration of intent?

Every child that ever lived is a "Questioning Youth."

You cannot see my point OR the Pastor's who is the subject of this thread?

John Kerry would, he would just implement the licentiousness anyway by relabeling the truth.

[MagusYanam]

If people who want to make a "culture" out of aberrant sexual behavior want to be viewed as just average folk, then the news is average folk do not equate their sex acts with who and what they are as a definition of "culture."

Then I guess that would rule you out as an 'average folk'. You're the one trying to equate an entire culture (the political left) with an unnatural sex act (something which is not applicable even to the vast majority of liberals), as these quotes would seem to indicate:

Democrats are Pederasts

Please visit any juvenile hall or homeless shelters for the children of a liberal licentious lifestyle.

Democrats don't normally define themselves by their sexual orientations but by their moral preferences - I'm a Democrat because I think war is wrong and because I think there should be some consideration of the poor in determining a course of social justice.

Stop generalising and address the issue. Why is it that the pastor can throw out the environmentalists, the pacifists and economic Keynesians who are Democrats by conscience? How does that help to build a strong church community, when the people who care about improving their world are tossed out by their heels? If anything, this pastor should be fired for incompetence - a pastor is supposed to bring people together, not drive an ideological wedge between them.

[ST88]

Democrats are Pederasts every bit as much as Republicans are big business greedy b-----ds.

I am not a Republican. And I could never be a Democrat while the support the murder of our children and the sexualizing of the ones lucky enough to get the opportunity of life.

I wonder about the pastor who siezes upon sex and uses it as a wedge to exclude members, but seems to ignore other aspects of doctrine when it comes to things in life that the Bible appears to frown upon.

Traditionally, Democrats try to directly help the poor., the meek, the downtrodden, those to whom capitalism has not been kind. Social welfare, Social Security, Medicare, & other entitlements are all Democratic brainchildren. Republicans are for leaving every person for themselves & wish to provide this type of assistance only to corporate entities. Rob from the poor & give to the rich. I.e., there is no difference between Democrats & Republicans when it comes to irreligious behavior or Biblically questionable planks. The Pastor was acting as a political entity -- whether it is because of hyper-polarized hysteria, ignorance of the mission statements of various parties around the country, or just plain pandering.

But why this emphasis on behavior?

Galatians 2:21
"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly." (NAS)

That is, if all God wanted was obedience, he would not have a need to send Christ down to die for all of our sins. In my opinion, the pastor was not acting as a spiritual leader, but as a political demagogue.

[AlAyeti]

Whatever Democrats once were is gone forever.

Communism and a wierd mix of hedonistic elitist's are the general view I get from my vantage point in California of Democrats, where no one making less than fifty-dollars an hour can afford a house in the radically Liberal-Democrat state. Ever heard of Hollywood? The poor litter the streets while the activist Democrat actors drive by (in Limos) on their way to LAX.

Please view the real estate markets in Massachusetts, New York and in the neighborhoods you can walk through at night in DC.

Where Liberals settle and set up their sexually-licentious shops and malls is a place where families and the poor cannot exist.

Do the math. The facts are there for anyone to see. Whatever goodness was in the Democrat party has been killed by parasites.

The Pastor did the right thing to ask these people that voted for one senator from a state that elected another murderous senator, to leave his church.

[AlAyeti]

St88,

Even Jesus told his disciples to arm themselves for defensive purposes. He knew that there is little time to get through to a perpetrator when they are driven to attack.

Being nice and accepting will get you or your children victimized.

Christians see that it is far from just two issues of abortion and same sex marriage that the Democrats are forcing on innocent people. Democrats waqnt to trake money from good and honest people and fund degenerate behavior WHILE outlawing churches from helping the poor and needy.

C'mon man, that is a fact.

The Faith Based initiative IS wonderful and is helping the poor. But, the poor are learning about absolutes in the process. This infuriates the Neo-Liberals that want chaos called "diversity." There is little defense against the Marxism promoted as Democrat position any longer. Marxism is intolerable to Christians.

If Democrats would remove the anti-American parasites that pretend to be honestwhile atthe same time attacking morality inder the guise of relativism, than almost every Christian, myself included would tell the big business Republicans to take a hike.

But to side with the Democrats on anything means to have to be victimized by their parasitical organizations that rule from the dark shadows and who march in the streets.

The Pastor was doing what was the best for his flock. Removing parasites from the body is healthy indeed. But first you have to identify the parasites.

Forgive them yes! and ask them to leave. They are not going to repent. There is no forgetting what Democrats really stand for. It is plain to see in what our children bring home from school.

And it is not in accord with being a Christian.

[AlAyeti]

Bernee: ". . . how do you say "Police State"

AlAyeti: I pronounce it: "Ay see el you."

Or, "Ch eye nuh."

OR, "ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT."

Any way you want to pronounce the above, to me as a Christian, "It ain't good!"

[ENIGMA]

Christians see that it is far from just two issues of abortion and same sex marriage that the Democrats are forcing on innocent people.

Really? People are forced to have abortions and can't marry people of the opposite sex? That's horrible!

Democrats want to trake money from good and honest people and fund degenerate behavior WHILE outlawing churches from helping the poor and needy.

C'mon man, that is a fact.

Really? Ok I call put up or shut up.

Name one law or one case ruling that makes it illegal for churches to help the poor. Heck, the Quaker meeting I went to as a kid did plenty to help the poor, yet I never saw a cease and desist notice.

Please be honest and either present a direct reference to a law or case ruling or publically admit that you were incorrect on this issue. Do try to save some face at least.

The Faith Based initiative IS wonderful and is helping the poor. But, the poor are learning about absolutes in the process. This infuriates the Neo-Liberals that want chaos called "diversity." There is little defense against the Marxism promoted as Democrat position any longer. Marxism is intolerable to Christians.

The "Faith Based initiative" infuriates me for a couple reasons, neither of which are mentioned. Firstly because its application effectively shuts out various secular charities that could better utilize the funds to give people skills to allow them to get back on their feet and earn a decent livable income. The organization that comes mainly to mind is one which trained people in culinary arts to work as resturant chefs that I heard about on a documentary about modern interactions between church and state.

Secondly, and this is the big one, move your head a tad closer to the monitor...

A bit closer...

Ok, Christian churches, as a whole tend to focus far more on the "preaching and evangalistic" side of the ministry as opposed to the "charity" side. If they quite honestly wanted to help out the less fortunate, then they could perhaps be bothered to spend "their own" money (Namely 10% of the income of every tithing American Christian + the vast sum of donations via collecting plates and other means, tax-free), and actually make a decent sized dent in the problem as opposed to just giving self-righteous sermons on the pulpit about how immoral Democrats are for giving government handouts, saying thank you very much to Bush for the government check, and try to come up with a more creative way of requiring the homeless to sing for their supper. All one needs to do is take a look at various Christian missionary activities in Africa which deny food to those who don't convert to see where this is heading.

But to side with the Democrats on anything means to have to be victimized by their parasitical organizations that rule from the dark shadows and who march in the streets.

Two mutually counter-productive actions. Fascinating.

The Pastor was doing what was the best for his flock. Removing parasites from the body is healthy indeed. But first you have to identify the parasites.

Funny, talking about parasites in an organization which sucks time, money , and critical thinking from its members. Good sheep don't think, they just follow. Baa.

[MagusYanam]

Please view the real estate markets in Massachusetts, New York and in the neighborhoods you can walk through at night in DC.

Empiricism here is not on your side (as it has rarely ever been). The most expensive housing in New England is not in the cities - unless you count Newport. It's in the suburbs and the exburbs. The people who live in the inner cities (where housing is cheaper) tend to vote overwhelmingly Democratic. The people who live in the expensive suburban homes tend to work for defence contract companies and by and large vote Republican.

Where Liberals settle and set up their sexually-licentious shops and malls is a place where families and the poor cannot exist.

The places I've seen the most malls and vulgar shops has not been in New England (where I live now) or in California or New Mexico (where I lived for a year) or in Wisconsin (where I lived for 16 years of my life). It's been in the red states: South Dakota, Utah, Ohio. Again, empiricism so far favours the blues.

Communism and a wierd mix of hedonistic elitist's are the general view I get from my vantage point in California of Democrats, where no one making less than fifty-dollars an hour can afford a house in the radically Liberal-Democrat state.

Maybe not in Hollywood, but in Pasadena (and I'm willing to bet in inner Los Angeles) apartments aren't that expensive. I lived in one for four months while my father (not to be considered upper-class) worked at CalTech. Experience has been my guide here as well. Also, I have yet to meet the Democrat who took Marxism at face-value, or who lived a hedonistic lifestyle (or could afford it). Again, experience.

Democrats waqnt to trake money from good and honest people and fund degenerate behavior WHILE outlawing churches from helping the poor and needy.

C'mon man, that is a fact.

No, it is a bigoted and vicious stereotype, and it is utterly inapplicable. You haven't proven it yet, and I have plenty of hard data to disprove it.

Outlawing churches from helping the poor and needy? The Democrats I know participate in churches helping the poor and needy. Check out the website of the 'Madison Christian Community' on Google sometime. Taking money from good and honest people to fund degenerate behaviour? I doubt it - most of the fiscal conservatives have drifted over to the Democratic Party because raising taxes will help us decrease national debt. Take a look at Clinton's fiscal policies. That's a fact. Republicans just want to bankrupt us and rape the economy while they're at it with their reckless spending and low taxation, Reagan-style.

Marxism is intolerable to Christians.

You should read Soul and Society by Gary Dorrien, especially the parts pertaining to Walter Rauschenbusch, the original Social Gospeller. Communism was abhorrent to Christianity, but milder forms of Marxism were most definitely not. More abhorrent in a moral sense to the classic Christian was the idea behind capitalism that the market is God and that the poor deserve their poverty because they didn't try hard enough. Rauschenbusch was a Baptist minister who worked in Hell's Kitchen in New York City - it was during his social service ministry there that he came to embrace a Gospel-based socialism. He tried to facilitate a dialogue between the workers and their employers, but when the employers refused to sit down and talk it out, Rauschenbusch drifted toward a more unionist socialism. He thought of Christian socialism as being the great equalising factor and the basis for a humane society, as writ in his book, Christianity and the Social Crisis.

If Democrats would remove the anti-American parasites that pretend to be honestwhile atthe same time attacking morality inder the guise of relativism, than almost every Christian, myself included would tell the big business Republicans to take a hike.

What the heck does that mean? Morality means not going to war to further our national imperial designs, morality means funding social programmes which aid the poor, morality means defending the natural world from corporate and private predations and investing in our environment. I have yet to see the Democratic Party attack one of those on the basis of relativism, and I have yet to see the Republican Party defend them on any basis.