Hello all!

[TXatheist]

Hello,

I just wanted to say hi to all. I joined today and I am looking forward to reading and discussing more here, as religion is always one of my favorite topics to debate. I was a Christian for the first 35 years of my life, but I became an Atheist about a year ago and I am so much happier today than I ever was when I was seeking god. But I won't bore your with my whole bio here, so....


Cheers!
DAStaten
http://www.Religulous.org

[McCulloch]

Welcome

Since your departure from the faith is so recent, do you still have contact with the faithful? Do you think you could recruit them to support their position here?

[TXatheist]

Welcome

Since your departure from the faith is so recent, do you still have contact with the faithful? Do you think you could recruit them to support their position here?

I didn't really have any friends in church. My most recent years in the church were spent in the BMC (Bible Missionary Church) which consisted of about a half dozen members, all over the age of 50. My mother and step-dad had gotten me started going there. They are still religious these days, but even they have quit going to the BMC church and are looking for something more mainstream. So really the only contact I have with the faithful is my visiting with my mother. And honestly, I think she's tired of debating her point online. She spent a lot of time on our local paper's forum, fighting the good fight, but I think she's given up.


DAStaten
My blog: http://www.Religulous.org

[JoeyKnothead]

Hello,

I just wanted to say hi to all. I joined today and I am looking forward to reading and discussing more here, as religion is always one of my favorite topics to debate. I was a Christian for the first 35 years of my life, but I became an Atheist about a year ago and I am so much happier today than I ever was when I was seeking god. But I won't bore your with my whole bio here, so....


Cheers!
DAStaten
http://www.Religulous.org

Currently going through your site. I love it. Glad to have ya here.

[TXatheist]

Currently going through your site. I love it. Glad to have ya here.

Thanks!

[OnceConvinced]

Glad to have you with us. Like you I was a Christian for many years. Over 30. I was raised from birth in a Christian home=and gave my life to the lord at an early age. I diligently and genuinely served and put my faith in Jesus. It took me a long time before I came to the horrible realisation that I was living in a delusion. (about two years ago actually)

I hope you enjoy debating with us, but be prepared to have a lot of Christians try to make the wishful claim that you were never a true Christian to begin with.

[TXatheist]

Glad to have you with us. Like you I was a Christian for many years. Over 30. I was raised from birth in a Christian home=and gave my life to the lord at an early age. I diligently and genuinely served and put my faith in Jesus. It took me a long time before I came to the horrible realisation that I was living in a delusion. (about two years ago actually)

I hope you enjoy debating with us, but be prepared to have a lot of Christians try to make the wishful claim that you were never a true Christian to begin with.

It's funny how every time a Christian disagrees with another Christian, they each say the other is not a true Christian. I spent 30 years in and out church. I've attended Charismatic churches, Baptist churches, Holiness churches, Presbyterian churches, Pentecostal churches, the list goes on.

I ended up in the Bible Missionary Church and I got rid of all my movies, all my secular music, I changed the way I dressed, I prayed constantly, I attended church every time the doors were open, I listened to religious radio, I loaded eSword onto my computer and spent hours studying the bible, I had one-on-one meetings with my pastor, etc. Our church followed the bible and the old traditions even more strictly than the Nazarene or the Pentecostals. And honestly, I never felt so alone in my life. I had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The only problem was it was a one sided relationship. I finally realized I was the only one putting forth any effort and doing any talking. Then I realized it was because there was nothing there.

People can say I was not a "true" Christian. But I know in my heart that I made every sacrifice and every effort necessary (more than necessary really), I devoted my time and my heart, and I wanted to believe more than I wanted anything else in my life. But in the end, I realized the only thing missing was my rational thought. When I put rational thought back into the equation, everything fell apart and I was left with the truth... there are no gods and nothing spiritual about this world.

And honestly, I was only disappointed at first. Soon I began to feel liberated. I realized I had complete control over my life and it felt good. Speaking to god, seeking god, and giving up so much for him and getting nothing back in return was a very sad experience. But now I am happy, content, and I have even done more to improve myself as a person than I ever did while in church. There is a great satisfaction and contentment that goes with knowing and accepting the truth and I have embraced that completely.

Some people say without religion, you cannot be a moral person. Apparently they feel religion is the only foundation for morality. But I do not lie, I do not steal, I do not cheat, and I take care of those around me. I give rides to strangers I often see walking around town. I give up my vacation time at work to those who run out of sick time and need time donated. And I personally know others who call themselves Christians who horde their vacation time and wouldn't consider giving it up for those in need. It makes me feel good to do good things, to do even better things than the religious people I see around me.

People don't need god in their life to be good people. On the contrary, religion preaches intolerance, hate, bigotry, and many other things that I don't need in my life. I had a problem with gays, Atheists, Hispanics, Blacks, and many other people while I was a Christian. Some of it I was taught, and some of it I just picked up from what I saw the Christians around me doing. It took removing god from my life to become the happy, tolerant, moral person that I am today.

Ok, I didn't mean to write a novel here hehe. I guess I've had some stuff bottled up for a while that I needed to get out. That's part of the reason I started my blog. I've had other blogs before, but I always ran out of things to say. As you can see, that is not a problem with the topic of "religion."

Thanks for the warm welcome. I know I'm going to enjoy my stay here.

[OnceConvinced]

It's funny how every time a Christian disagrees with another Christian, they each say the other is not a true Christian. I spent 30 years in and out church. I've attended Charismatic churches, Baptist churches, Holiness churches, Presbyterian churches, Pentecostal churches, the list goes on.

I'm hearing ya! I've been to some of the same, Pentecostal, Baptist, Presbyterian, also AOG, Open Bretheren, Methodist, Anglican... I never stopped going even when I left home. Never rebelled.

It makes me laugh when you get some Christians who claim "none of them are true Christian churches". Oh yeah, I've had that here!

I ended up in the Bible Missionary Church and I got rid of all my movies, all my secular music, I changed the way I dressed, I prayed constantly, I attended church every time the doors were open, I listened to religious radio, I loaded eSword onto my computer and spent hours studying the bible, I had one-on-one meetings with my pastor, etc.

I know of one outspoken former Christian member here who when I listed the things I did as a faithful Christian he claimed "You were a religious Christian". No doubt he'd say the same about you. But of course if you don't make efforts in particular areas, then people will be complaining about the things you didn't do and that THAT is why you were never a true Christian.

I had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The only problem was it was a one sided relationship. I finally realized I was the only one putting forth any effort and doing any talking. Then I realized it was because there was nothing there.

I really believed God was active in my "relationship" for many years, but then suddenly silence. He seemed to just vanish. (Christians will say it was me that abandoned him, but if they knew my life and my attitude as a Christian they will realise I did nothing different and that I did all I could do to keep my "relationship" strong with him). Regardless of his disappearance, for over 10 years I continued to have strong faith. But then one day it hit me, Hello, maybe God was never there to begin with. Then it was very easy to rationalise the things I thought was God in my life. Way too easy. The ease of it convinced me even more that what Christians believe is God, always has some kind of rational explanation that doesn't involve God.

People can say I was not a "true" Christian. But I know in my heart that I made every sacrifice and every effort necessary (more than necessary really), I devoted my time and my heart, and I wanted to believe more than I wanted anything else in my life. But in the end, I realized the only thing missing was my rational thought. When I put rational thought back into the equation, everything fell apart and I was left with the truth... there are no gods and nothing spiritual about this world.

Yes, I can identify. I've come to the conclusion that if someone like myself, a genuine committed believer was never a true Christian (after diligently serving for so long) then nobody can claim to be a true Christian. There is just no such thing. People who have been Christians for more than 30 years (who aren't retired and set in their ways) are in the minority and anyone who has not been a Christian that long cannot really judge us as they have never "been there, done that".

And honestly, I was only disappointed at first. Soon I began to feel liberated. I realized I had complete control over my life and it felt good. Speaking to god, seeking god, and giving up so much for him and getting nothing back in return was a very sad experience. But now I am happy, content, and I have even done more to improve myself as a person than I ever did while in church. There is a great satisfaction and contentment that goes with knowing and accepting the truth and I have embraced that completely.

There are still some things I miss about being a Christian. I loved it and had no desire to leave it. But one has to face reality sooner or later. One cannot continue to live in a delusion when the truth is obvious. In many ways my life has become more enriched that I am no longer a Christian. And as the months go by I can see my life getting better and better. It's very hard to break out of the 30+ years of brainwashing though, and that takes time. But I do definitely feel liberated, no doubts about that! I no longer have to worry about what some petty, angry man-concocted deity wants.

Some people say without religion, you cannot be a moral person. Apparently they feel religion is the only foundation for morality. But I do not lie, I do not steal, I do not cheat, and I take care of those around me. I give rides to strangers I often see walking around town. I give up my vacation time at work to those who run out of sick time and need time donated. And I personally know others who call themselves Christians who horde their vacation time and wouldn't consider giving it up for those in need. It makes me feel good to do good things, to do even better things than the religious people I see around me.

People don't need god in their life to be good people. On the contrary, religion preaches intolerance, hate, bigotry, and many other things that I don't need in my life. I had a problem with gays, Atheists, Hispanics, Blacks, and many other people while I was a Christian. Some of it I was taught, and some of it I just picked up from what I saw the Christians around me doing. It took removing god from my life to become the happy, tolerant, moral person that I am today.

Abso-bloody-lutely!

Now that I am no longer a Christian, I have not become an immoral person. I have seen one major improvement in myself and that is I am much more accepting of people who are different to me. I no longer need to look at people as evil or depraved because they are atheists, belong to other religions, are gay or praptise witchcraft.

Ok, I didn't mean to write a novel here hehe. I guess I've had some stuff bottled up for a while that I needed to get out. That's part of the reason I started my blog. I've had other blogs before, but I always ran out of things to say. As you can see, that is not a problem with the topic of "religion."

It was a good read. Nice to come across someone else who has been in a similar situation to me and has come to similar realisations.

[TXatheist]

There are still some things I miss about being a Christian. I loved it and had no desire to leave it. But one has to face reality sooner or later.

I can totally identify with that. I actually have very fond memories of the Charismatic church that my mother and I attended when I was young. It was a huge, very expensive church. It was like a mini Astrodome that could seat thousands. They had a real band with a drummer, guitarist, pianist, the works. We sang upbeat songs and people would get excited and dance in the isles. There was a cool Christian bookstore built inside with all kinds of neat trinkets and "helpful" literature.

Then one day I realized our preacher was wearing an Armani suit, gold jewelry, expensive custom framed glasses... he looked too superior to even touch. His home was worth a couple million dollars, he had a few brand new, very expensive cars. And sometimes he would preach for a full two hours on tithing alone.

My grandmother was very sick with cancer when I was about 14. She had turned to god right around the time that she got sick and was the most devoted Christian I knew. PTL was on the TV 24 hours a day and even her parrots started proclaiming god and salvation. She was a bird lover. When she finally got sick enough that we had to put her in the hospital, we found out that one of our denominations great healers was coming to town. My grandmother, sick as she was, made sure that she attended the service that he was going to guest speak at. We had to take her in a wheelchair, she was so weak. We were all so anxious for the alter call, she was going to be healed! We sat there for two hours while the guest speaker preached about tithing and how we should pony up our last dime for the church. It took so long that she was too tired and weak to stay any longer. We had to take her back to the hospital before they even had the alter call. She died soon after that.

That all happened at Maranatha in Baytown, Texas, the same church with the golden pastor with his multimillion dollar home and his Armani suit. He is richer today and my grandmother is still dead.

Even after that, I believed and sought god for fifteen more years. I just thought god was somewhere else in some other church. But I never did find him. I didn't even find him alone in my bedroom where I prayed in secret.

But getting back to your original point, I actually miss those times in church when I was a kid. There was a friendly atmosphere, happy music, and I got to hear a message of unconditional love and hope. That is, when the preacher wasn't asking for money. Believe it or not, I've thought about going back recently. Not because I believe. But because the atmosphere was happy and if nothing else, I can learn more about what the opposition believes. I guess I would consider it a pleasant and educational experience. Shakespeare said keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I probably won't go back though. I think I've learned all they can teach me, at least at that church.

[OnceConvinced]

There are still some things I miss about being a Christian. I loved it and had no desire to leave it. But one has to face reality sooner or later.

I can totally identify with that. I actually have very fond memories of the Charismatic church that my mother and I attended when I was young. It was a huge, very expensive church. It was like a mini Astrodome that could seat thousands. They had a real band with a drummer, guitarist, pianist, the works. We sang upbeat songs and people would get excited and dance in the isles. There was a cool Christian bookstore built inside with all kinds of neat trinkets and "helpful" literature.

Then one day I realized our preacher was wearing an Armani suit, gold jewelry, expensive custom framed glasses... he looked too superior to even touch. His home was worth a couple million dollars, he had a few brand new, very expensive cars. And sometimes he would preach for a full two hours on tithing alone.

One of the best churches I went to was a huge charismatic one too. It was ballooning in size and is now one of the biggest churches in Auckland City and even has it's own morning TV show, where the pastor and his wife put on big fake smiles and preach a lot of BS. The pastor is a very charismatic guy and really seems like he is being led by God. Very inspiring and can really move his audience. (skills of a great preacher - No God needed really).

I remember being surprised when I heard an old friend left the church because he was disgusted at the amount of money that was being splashed around for luxury. At that point I thought "well, it's just God blessing the ministry". It wasn't until a few years later, when I started to question my faith, it occurred to me that the pastor really was living in the lap of luxury, with his expensive suits, house, cars... and the church offices were like a corporate office. Very swish. They were blatantly taking money from families who struggle to survive, to line their own pockets. I wonder just how much of it all is just an act and just how much of a conman the pastor is.

My grandmother was very sick with cancer when I was about 14. She had turned to god right around the time that she got sick and was the most devoted Christian I knew. PTL was on the TV 24 hours a day and even her parrots started proclaiming god and salvation. She was a bird lover. When she finally got sick enough that we had to put her in the hospital, we found out that one of our denominations great healers was coming to town. My grandmother, sick as she was, made sure that she attended the service that he was going to guest speak at. We had to take her in a wheelchair, she was so weak. We were all so anxious for the alter call, she was going to be healed! We sat there for two hours while the guest speaker preached about tithing and how we should pony up our last dime for the church. It took so long that she was too tired and weak to stay any longer. We had to take her back to the hospital before they even had the alter call. She died soon after that.

That all happened at Maranatha in Baytown, Texas, the same church with the golden pastor with his multimillion dollar home and his Armani suit. He is richer today and my grandmother is still dead.

That sort of story pisses me off now. It just goes to show how much of a scam it all is, isn't it? Give the people hope, give them promises of an after life, rewards after they're dead. Milk them for every penny in the mean time and once they're dead, who's gonna sue?

It sickened me to find out how much my ex-mother in law was giving from her inheritance to a church with a pastor who wears expensive suits and drives expensive cars. She have a gift of about 100 thousand to them once. I wonder how much of that went to the needy.

What really annoys me now is when I look at my parents and how they've struggled all their lives on meager income, yet always giving money to the church. They had to work their butts off for every penny. And they were always so faithful to their God. I never once saw them lose faith or stop what they're doing. They've always been so faithful. But throughout all that, they get absolutely no financial blessings from God. They get no respite. Life continues to be a struggle for them. No doubt Christians will claim they will get their rewards in Heaven, but you'd think they'd get some blessings during their life, especially when God appears to be blessing people so less deserving.

Now, I see that as evidence there is no God. There is no blessings from God. You just get the hands you are delt and my parents just weren't fortunate enough to be born with or to develop the skills they needed to get ahead in life. Although now I also see that a lot of the reason they never got anywhere is because they always "left it up to God". "If it's God's will then we'll get this or that." It's that sort of thinking that gets you nowhere. You've got to get off your butt and make your own success.

But getting back to your original point, I actually miss those times in church when I was a kid. There was a friendly atmosphere, happy music, and I got to hear a message of unconditional love and hope. That is, when the preacher wasn't asking for money. Believe it or not, I've thought about going back recently. Not because I believe. But because the atmosphere was happy and if nothing else, I can learn more about what the opposition believes. I guess I would consider it a pleasant and educational experience. Shakespeare said keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I probably won't go back though. I think I've learned all they can teach me, at least at that church.

Wow, another similarity with me there. I have often thought about going back and still haven't completely abandoned the idea. Just for the culture. I was respected and given responsibility. I got given key roles on high budget stage shows (I really miss acting in those). People looked up to me and valued my input when it came to God and the Bible. I could easily put on an act and convince them all I'm a true Christian, I know I could. One thing's for sure, there will be no "Holy spirit discernment" that will be able to expose me as a "false Christian". That's a myth as evidenced by the fact that many Christian members here now see me as "never being a true Christian to begin with". If I never was and the Holy Spirit was for real, I surely would have been exposed years ago.