Homosexuality

[Daystar]

Italy's nominee to become the European Union's Justice and Home Affairs commissioner failed on Monday to win the backing of the European Parliament's Justice Committee, days after testifying that he considers homosexuality a sin.

The panel narrowly failed to endorse Rocco Buttiglione, who is currently Italy's European Affairs minister, said Jean-Louis Bourlanges, chairman of the Justice Committee.

Buttiglione said that he would fight for the rights of homosexuals, but would not back away from his statement that the lifestyle is sinful.

Isn't this the way it should be? Fight for the rights of homosexuals, but individuals, but define their lifestyle as sinful (Lev. 18:22).

[melikio]

I can't see how homosexuality would be a choice.

I agree (in the following sense):

Being a homosexual person, the physical expression of homosexuality is the only choice I see in any of it. (Anyone here ever tried to NOT feel like a "striaght" person?)

But I think there is nothing to say (prove) that a homosexual orientation is a "choice".

And to me, that is one reason the way many homosexuals are treated is so grevious a thing. Many Christians should consider more completely, what it is that people are facing in reality.

It is very easy to look at some gay person, and build a case for what one wishes to believe about that person. When in reality, we don't really know where they've been, what they've been through or even how reality has affected their perceptions within the sexuality they know.

I can often understand that Christians are anxious over homosexuality, but the often neurotic notion that a gay person "chose" their sexual-orientation, is akin to someone saying that people chose their SINFUL NATURE, which is something even non-homosexuals are affected by.

What it boils down to me is this. Conservative-Christians are so often concerned that some homosexual-agenda might prevail, so they worry about any possible excuse for promoting homosexuality (including actually understanding the people who are homosexual). This leads to a type of mistreatment of PEOPLE, which IN NO WAY serves a God of Love. Christians are not AUTHORIZED to simulate the WRATH of God, and leash it out upon those things and people they disagree with.

The same God that created this world, is the same God who let homosexuals (and other sinners) know what humaness and compassion actually are. What has happened over a great deal of time, is that some who are religious have redefined God's love and compassion, to fit their own perceptions of what they THINK (or believe) God is like. There is no getting around that, and history proves what I'm saying.

Jesus gave people a BETTER WAY than religion to help them help one another (and to get along together). Love and its miraculous power, is a tool put there for all mankind to make use of, to solve the most difficult problems imaginable. But that is very very difficult to communicate sometimes, especially when PEOPLE prefer their own solutions over love itself.

Remember, if love isn't the essence of the message or actions you bring, then you've accomplished NOTHING. (1Cor13)

Choice? (Actions taken, likely yes. Human condition suffered, likely not.)

-Mel-

[jjg]

We can know by human reason that homosexuality is disordered.

Humans intuitively know that a human and a farm animal are not sexually compatible. In the same way we can know that two males or two females are incompatible.

Homosexuality was taken off the American Psychiatric Association list of psychological disorders, but in hindsight it looks like this was politically motivated.

The consequences of the homosexual act defines it as a disorder. There are numerous diseases including anal cancers associated with the act. The average gay male does not live past 39 years of age.

Sometimes animal's sex drive is overpowering and in the confusion they do cupulate with the same sex. This is no way the "norm for that species as the species would not survive if it could not reproduce which is why the species has a reproductive system to start with.

Besides, associating purely what another animal does with humans would be absurd. An extreme example is that a preying mantis beheads its mate when cupulating. How can we associate this behavior with humans?

[melikio]

We can know by human reason that homosexuality is disordered.

There are so many exceptions to this, it's hardly worth investigating.

And there are a great number of aspects to "heterosexuality" which could be labeled as "disordered", according to the reasoning you have provided.

-Mel-

[jjg]

Can you give an exception?

Basic bilogy tells us that male and females are compatible.

[jjg]

Would you like to present an exception instead of a sweeping comment?

[melikio]

Would you like to present an exception instead of a sweeping comment?

The thread really isn't about animal sexuality vs. human sexuality, so why did you continue the comparison at all. You are saying BOGUS things, period.

Secondly, it is prudent to respond to this:

Isn't this the way it should be? Fight for the rights of homosexuals, but individuals, but define their lifestyle as sinful (Lev. 18:22).

The main problem here, is that the "Christian" response and view of "homosexuality", is typically non-standard; even to the point of being outright bigoted on one extreme, edifyingly-loving in those who are reasonable and perhaps disturbingly accepting at the other extreme.

This comparison of homosexual people with animals typically goes too far; you gave in to it; used it in the wrong way and came off as being bogus...as many who are even pro-gay sometimes do. There is science concerning comparison with certain animal behaviors, but it's not meant to justify or explain homosexuality in human beings.

-Mel-

[jjg]

I just used the animal/human compatibility to show that we can have intuitively knowledge that they are not compatibile.

We can likewise use biology to know that two males are not compatible.

I didn't present any theological argument. Its based on human reasoning.

[Arya]

I apologize for jumping in, but I would like to add something here.

I was raised in a household that was heterosexual, but taught to me the values of not discriminating another being for their choice in who they love.

We fall in love with who we choose. Some people can give specific reasons why they fell in love, or are attracted to, a particular person. Some cannot, it is just an emotion that they cannot describe, but nonetheless feel.

Some people are attracted to members of the opposite sex. Others are attracted only to members of the same sex.

If a person is not harming another through their actions, nor are they harming themselves by the same actions, and they are happy within themselves, then it should not matter who they choose to love. That is a very personal decision that only that individual is prepared to make. The opinions of a complete stranger, religious group, or governmental body should hold no weight upon who you choose to love. It is none of their business.

In other words, if a person chooses to fall in love or is attracted to members of the same sex, no government or individual or religious group should have the right to judge that decision since it is not theirs to make.

(I have stated this post with no direct aim at any one particular person who has previously posted on this thread. If the comments that I have made sound to be in reference to any particular posting or comment, it was unintentional.)

[melikio]

I just used the animal/human compatibility to show that we can have intuitively knowledge that they are not compatibile.

We can likewise use biology to know that two males are not compatible.

I didn't present any theological argument. Its based on human reasoning.

I can see your points (which I did before but do not agree completely); even so, the conclusions you implied are at least highly debatable, and I really don't want to see people swallow partial-truth as if it's Gospel.

I won't necessarily argue the morality of homosexuality itself (because I happen to be tentative about what many believe the Bible and science are actually saying), but I will remain sensitive to the tactics and ploys some people may engage to dehumanize homosexual PEOPLE (whether unintentional or otherwise).

-Mel-

[bernee51]

We can know by human reason that homosexuality is disordered.

A more accurate statement might be - human sexuality has the potential to be disordered.

Humans intuitively know that a human and a farm animal are not sexually compatible. In the same way we can know that two males or two females are incompatible.

A wonderful example of a straw man argument. Mind if I keep it for my next logics class?

Homosexuality was taken off the American Psychiatric Association list of psychological disorders, but in hindsight it looks like this was politically motivated.

Can you provide some references to back up this claim?

The consequences of the homosexual act defines it as a disorder. There are numerous diseases including anal cancers associated with the act.

There are numerous diseases from all human contact, none that i know of are specific to homosexuals.

The average gay male does not live past 39 years of age.

Substantiation of this claim would be welcomed. (I suspect William Bennett)