What do you think about Sweden?

LillSnopp · Post by **LillSnopp** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:20 pm

I would love to hear, and get opinions about Sweden, i would especially encourage any execration and misconceptions, as i am interested in hearing peoples opinions.

Do you know anything about Sweden?
If so, what do you know ?

You have any opinions about Sweden ?
If so, What ?

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:08 am

Sweden is home to some of my favorite music:
Hedningarna
Garmarna
Gjallarhorn (Finland, but a Swedish speaking part)

I think the pop-history of Sweden in America is thus:
Neutrality through both world wars
Medieval domination of Scandanavia
Salt mines
Die-hard Protestantism
Liberal, welfare economy
Highest suicide rate in the civilized world
King Olaf (via e.e. cummings' poem)
Swedish jokes from Garrison Keillor (why don't Swedes eat spaghetti? Because they don't have plates that long -- For those who don't know Keillor, he's an American humorist of Norwegian descent who tells fictitious tales about a small town in upstate Minnesota on his musical-variety radio show.)
Meatballs
Stockholm syndrome
Saab & Volvo
High-cheekboned, blue-eyed babes (though, myself, I prefer Finns)
ABBA
IKEA
Garbo
Absolut Vodka (though I doubt many people know this is Swedish)
Tennis & hockey players
Pickled herring
Ingmar Bergman (& Ingrid)
Powder-blue flag
Damn cold

I think there are many people in America that would find Sweden indistinguishable from Norway, Denmark, and even Finland.

LillSnopp · Post by **LillSnopp** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:04 am

Highest suicide rate in the civilized world

Actually, this is not correct.

It´s like this, Sweden was the first country in the world, to give correct statistic about suicide rate (and other), hence, therefore we have high suicide rate. (other countries dont want, or cant, give correct).

We are also still one of the few countries in the world whom give the correct statistic rates concerning everything. The actual Suicide rate is not very high compared to other countries.

A Simple example could be, if you find a man in the river in the United States, he is recorded as "drowned". If you find a man in the river in Sweden, they investigate it, and draws the conclusion that this man jumped from the bridge over there, and get registered as a Suicide. And any people found to be dead, for no apparent reason other then murdered, is marked as suicde, whiles any investigation is going on. (just a simple illustration)

Just a general misconception. I assumed you guys knew this...

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:59 am

LillSnopp wrote:A Simple example could be, if you find a man in the river in the United States, he is recorded as "drowned". If you find a man in the river in Sweden, they investigate it, and draws the conclusion that this man jumped from the bridge over there, and get registered as a Suicide. And any people found to be dead, for no apparent reason other then murdered, is marked as suicde, whiles any investigation is going on. (just a simple illustration)

Just a general misconception. I assumed you guys knew this...

Statistics are not generally an American strong point, except among the silent intelligentsia. I didn't know if that particular factoid was true or not, but it's often cited as true by many people over here. Especially by the right-wingers who are terrified of the liberal social Swedish system. If you guys are successful, and the people are happy, then what does it say about free-market capitalism?

LillSnopp · Post by **LillSnopp** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:36 pm

(1)Statistics are not generally an American strong point, except among the silent intelligentsia. I didn't know if that particular factoid was true or not, but it's often cited as true by many people over here. Especially by the right-wingers who are terrified of the liberal social Swedish system.(2) If you guys are successful, and the people are happy, then what does it say about free-market capitalism?

1. Most countries are like that. The main thing why i use the U.S as an example, is because they constantly claim to be "the best", one Nation under God.

2. That we are evil

The Swedish system would not be able to work in the United States, because of the vast differences in cultures. In Sweden, you are raised as a honest decent human being, and are suppose to care and help others*. Whiles the U.S have the total opposite, where you are the only important thing in life, and no one should be in your way.

If the U.S would use our system, no one would work, and more or less everyone would try to take as much as possible (use the medical care, education, welfare in a way not meant ot be used), because of the culture present in the Nation.

Americans also have several other misconceptions about Sweden, usually believing that we have the highest Taxes in the world, and so forth. The funny thing is, most americans do not seem to know how much tax they pay, or what tax really is.

I myself, made some calculation using some of your States Tax figures, and ended up with almost the same tax we had. Except of course, you did not get Free Education, Free Medical Care, and so forth. Life is funny sometimes.

* There is a saying that ´you cant be poor in Sweden´, which is true, both for the good and bad sides of it.

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:05 pm

Apart from the fact that Sweden produced two of the worst (IMHO) pop (or is it pap?) groups in recorded history (ABBA and Roxette), that Basque separatist terrorists benefitted from the enthusiastic fundraising efforts of former Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme, and that Swedes invented Stockholm syndrome in 1973, I have nothing against Swedes. Strindberg is OK, Lagerloff is OK (but Swedenborg was a crackpot) and no one really remembers Bjorn Borg anymore.

Rememeber you invited execration...

But I'm Spanish and I guess you really want to pick a fight with Americans, right?

Anyway, I think Sweden is no match for its neighbors, Finland and Norway.

LillSnopp · Post by **LillSnopp** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:59 am

part from the fact that Sweden produced two of the worst (IMHO) pop (or is it pap?) groups in recorded history (ABBA and Roxette)

Sweden is the third largest exporter of music in the World. And the only nation on the planet that exports more music then its imports. Beat that Spaniard

and that Swedes invented Stockholm syndrome

Invented.. ha

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:46 am

LillSnopp wrote:
part from the fact that Sweden produced two of the worst (IMHO) pop (or is it pap?) groups in recorded history (ABBA and Roxette)
Sweden is the third largest exporter of music in the World. And the only nation on the planet that exports more music then its imports. Beat that Spaniard

Spain also consumes more domestic pop music than imported pop music. However, since you seem to be convinced that Sweden has a monopoly on correct statistics, I see no use in posting the figures.

Perhaps quality will make up for quantity.

How's this?

Two of the three tenors are Spanish.

Spanish music inspired Bizet to write "Carmen", Miles Davis to write "Sketches of Spain", and Chick Corea to write "Spain".

Classical guitar was a Spanish invention (designed by Antonio de Torres in 1860) and a Spaniard (Andrés Segovia) its main popularizer.

The most popular concert in the entire classical repertoire is a Spanish one: "El Concierto de Aranjuez" by Joaquín Rodrigo.

The Gregorian chants of the Spanish monks at Silos sold 2 million copies in 1994. (OK, the there was "Macarena"--nobody's perfect!)

The musical art form known as Flamenco is a Spanish invention from the 19th century.

What do you say now, Swede?

LillSnopp · Post by **LillSnopp** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:20 am

The musical art form known as Flamenco is a Spanish invention from the 19th century.

I like Flamenco, cognratz that you made something good Spaniard

You can always repartée with a "We colonized South America"

Which i will give the clever answer: We colonized Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware (New Sweden), 1630 or so.. HA !!! 8) But the Dutch took our entire colony like 20 years later on....

(the ball bearing is swedish made invention)

Btw: Is Spain known for something special which you never think about?

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:45 pm

LillSnopp wrote:

I like Flamenco, cognratz that you made something good Spaniard

All right, now I know you have good taste in music, at least!

The Spanish colonized more than just South America. For example, the oldest US city is St Augustine, Florida (San Agustín), founded by the Spanish. Also, I'm sure you've heard of the Spanish missions in California. My favorite is in Carmel, near Monterey.
The Spanish also colonized the Philippines, and certain areas of Africa (Spanish Sahara, Equatorial Guinea). There are still two small Spanish enclaves in North Africa, Ceuta and Melilla.

Btw: Is Spain known for something special which you never think about?

Well, Spain was the first European country to manufacture paper, and if I don't remember wrong sign language was first developed in Spain. Also, the first modern novel is a Spanish one (Cervantes' "Don Quixote") written 400 years ago. I have to admit that it irritates me when people think that Pablo Picasso was French! One thing we definitely have is first-rate painters (Velázquez, Goya, Picasso, Dalí, Miró...)