Why The Israelis Fight

[JoeyKnothead]

For anyone wondering why the Israelis had to move into Gaza, these youtube clips should help you understand just what kind of folks the Israelis are up against.

Hamas Launches Mortars Beside School

Hamas Operates From Civilian Locations

What honor is there in hiding amongst civilians to wage war? These are war crimes!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beto]

"Honor"? One should be wary of bringing up "honor" in modern warfare. The one with the biggest and/or more sophisticated weaponry can usually afford a more "honorable" stance.

EDIT: And let's not forget there are more ways to wage war, that don't show up in the news, and that might very well trigger predictable desperate measures, apparently unreasonable, as if the alternative isn't simply submitting to an apartheid. Such as unlawful occupation of territory, dependency on the enemy for goods and services, daily humiliations at checkpoints, etc, etc. It's like slapping a guy in the face until he punches you, so you can "lawfully" shoot him.

[Vanguard]

"Honor"? One should be wary of bringing up "honor" in modern warfare. The one with the biggest and/or more sophisticated weaponry can usually afford a more "honorable" stance.

EDIT: And let's not forget there are more ways to wage war, that don't show up in the news, and that might very well trigger predictable desperate measures, apparently unreasonable, as if the alternative isn't simply submitting to an apartheid. Such as unlawful occupation of territory, dependency on the enemy for goods and services, daily humiliations at checkpoints, etc, etc. It's like slapping a guy in the face until he punches you, so you can "lawfully" shoot him.

To torture the analogy even further, the context changes once again when you know the guy who punched you actually would kill you had he the means. Many of these slaps if not all you refer to would not be there if the guy punched could give reasonable assurances he wasn't out to kill.

[Beto]

To torture the analogy even further, the context changes once again when you know the guy who punched you actually would kill you had he the means. Many of these slaps if not all you refer to would not be there if the guy punched could give reasonable assurances he wasn't out to kill.

And considering whole populations, is there ever an unprovoked motivation to kill? Did the slap fest begin preemptively, or specifically to provoke a reaction? These aren't rhetorical questions... If someone has details I'd like to read them.

Giving the analogy a rest, who started? Here we have a false dichotomy, for sure. But without playing the blame game, this apartheid policy can be reasonably inferred as the reason behind the "dishonorable" behavior of desperate people, on the land they presume to defend as theirs.

[Vanguard]

To torture the analogy even further, the context changes once again when you know the guy who punched you actually would kill you had he the means. Many of these slaps if not all you refer to would not be there if the guy punched could give reasonable assurances he wasn't out to kill.

And considering whole populations, is there ever an unprovoked motivation to kill? Did the slap fest begin preemptively, or specifically to provoke a reaction? These aren't rhetorical questions... If someone has details I'd like to read them.

Giving the analogy a rest, who started? Here we have a false dichotomy, for sure. But without playing the blame game, this apartheid policy can be reasonably inferred as the reason behind the "dishonorable" behavior of desperate people, on the land they presume to defend as theirs.

The reality is that these grievances will never find full reconciliation not at least in my life time. A compromise must be had. I simply do not trust enough the motivations behind those who would lead the Palestinian cause for more liberties. Many in the West who consider themselves "pro-Israeli" believe the only acceptable compromise is simply not one in the eyes of Hamas. The Palestinians want all the land back not only because they claim it's theirs but because they also cannot tolerate a Jew having any bit of it. And so, short of the Jewish nation packing up and leaving there will always be conflict.

That being the case, I am looking for the side who offers the most reasonable compromise. The Israelis have and continue to seek some balance in this regard. It is feared any compromise on the part of the Palestinians is really not a compromise but rather they begrudge the status quo because they have no choice. They will take what they think they can get until they can get it all and they will do it with much less regard for innocent human lives. Unfortunately, the many more moderate-minded Palestinians are swept up in this fervor as are those who are unable to defend themselves adequately. This is a travesty. The militant arm of Hamas (as if there were any other!) may gain the world's favor as well as additional concessions from the Israelis though these will have been gained at the expense of sacrificing those same Palestinian innocents all for a piece of land. This is a greater travesty.

Take my land and stick me in a ghetto. You may find considerable opposition from me for the rest of my life though this opposition will NEVER be at the expense of those children who Hamas now hides behind. A travesty indeed...

[JoeyKnothead]

The UN says Israel is Israel. That is a legal order from a legal entity. To say Israel is somehow illegal is to fail to understand the UN created Israel, not the Israelis.

Hamas is a terrorist organization by any measure. Employing weaponry on top or nearby civilians is a war crime, according to the Geneva Convention.

If Palestinians did not wish to live in "ghettos" they have the option of NOT BOMBING INNOCENT CIVILIANS. By not doing so, Israel would have no reason to enforce the safety measures they've employed.

[indie_girl03]

hamas is bad
israel is bad
hamas shouldnt hide behind innocent people and israel shouldnt kill innocent people just to get to hamas
so far more than 700 people have been killed, half of those innocent people
israel has no right 2 kill innocent civilians