Proof The Quran Is True

[JoeyKnothead]

Let's examine the Quran and see if it can be proven to be the actual word of Allah, or prove the existence of Allah.

muhammad rasullah has offered some evidence, that if proven correct, to me at least would be very powerful proof for the Quran's claims...

So what you are searching for is proof that the knowledge in the quran man could not have come up with himself. Okay I will consent to that.

In the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven," as stated in the verse above, is used in various places in the Qur'an. It is referring to space and the wider universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning, stating that the universe "expands." The Arabic word "moosiaaoona" in the term "inna lamoosiaaoona," translated into English as "it is We Who are steadily expanding it", comes from the verb "evsea," meaning "to expand." The prefix "la" emphasises the following name or title and adds a sense of "to a great extent." This expression therefore means "We expand the sky or the universe to a great extent." This is the very conclusion that science has reached today.
How could this have been known at the time of the prophet over 1400 years ago? It is there and science has proven this a a fact. So now you have to answer the question in a reasonable and logical way with proof as to where else this knowledge could've come from? considering that knowone knew this to be true.
The link is given and you can read more about it yourself...

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_02.html
_________________
Bismillahir rahmaanir Raheem "In The Name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful"

[Goat]

It does NOT mean ‘steadily expanding’. The following ayat:

Sura 51 - Adh-Dhariyat [The Winnowing winds] Verse 47:
47. وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا ب�أَيْد� وَإ�نَّا لَم�وس�ع�ونَ

LITERALLY means:

Sura 51 - Adh-Dhariyat [The Winnowing winds] Verse 47:
47. And the sky (OR space) We built (OR constructed) it with power (OR support), and We are extending (OR spreading)

In other words, mistranslation.. purposeful. That is exactly what my link said, but was denied.

Yes, this is the same technique that the fundamental Christians used on the bible.

[muhammad rasullah]

It does NOT mean ‘steadily expanding’. The following ayat:

Sura 51 - Adh-Dhariyat [The Winnowing winds] Verse 47:
47. وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا ب�أَيْد� وَإ�نَّا لَم�وس�ع�ونَ

LITERALLY means:

Sura 51 - Adh-Dhariyat [The Winnowing winds] Verse 47:
47. And the sky (OR space) We built (OR constructed) it with power (OR support), and We are extending (OR spreading)

It means the same thing extending it, spreading it, expanding it all means the same thing. Spread and extend are just synonyms of expand.
But like I said from the arabic the word in the verse "moosiaaoona" comes from the verb "evsea" meaning to expand. So therefore the correct translation of the verse means "it is We who are steadily expanding it."
Prove to me that the arabic is wrong. Prove that is not what the arabic means.

Please stop trying to make something appear different when it is the same meaning.

[muhammad rasullah]

He didn't want to defend it I guess.

I have defended it..
Do you accept the proof I have given you?
Since this is a scientifically known fact which science with all its technology and resources have just come to know within the 100 years maybe less than that. My question then is how could the Prophet (pbuh) have known this information? There was no technology at the time and no resources for him to come to this conclusion. He could not read nor write not even his own name. his statement is true when he says he is the messenger of Allah.

If you believe he is not then you would have to account for where he could've got this knowledge.

[Goat]

He didn't want to defend it I guess.

I have defended it..
Do you accept the proof I have given you?
Since this is a scientifically known fact which science with all its technology and resources have just come to know within the 100 years maybe less than that. My question then is how could the Prophet (pbuh) have known this information? There was no technology at the time and no resources for him to come to this conclusion. He could not read nor write not even his own name. his statement is true when he says he is the messenger of Allah.

If you believe he is not then you would have to account for where he could've got this knowledge.

It has been pointed out that , when going back into the original translation, that the translation is purposely incorrect. This new 'interpretation' didn't come out until the scientific knowledge came out, and there were other translations previous to the scientific knowledge that held sway before that.

One might ask why the sudden change in translation after something is known scientifically? Is it to sway the ignorant and the easily convinced?

[muhammad rasullah]

He didn't want to defend it I guess.

I have defended it..
Do you accept the proof I have given you?
Since this is a scientifically known fact which science with all its technology and resources have just come to know within the 100 years maybe less than that. My question then is how could the Prophet (pbuh) have known this information? There was no technology at the time and no resources for him to come to this conclusion. He could not read nor write not even his own name. his statement is true when he says he is the messenger of Allah.

If you believe he is not then you would have to account for where he could've got this knowledge.

It has been pointed out that , when going back into the original translation, that the translation is purposely incorrect. This new 'interpretation' didn't come out until the scientific knowledge came out, and there were other translations previous to the scientific knowledge that held sway before that.

One might ask why the sudden change in translation after something is known scientifically? Is it to sway the ignorant and the easily convinced?

What do you mean it has been pointed out? By who? Listen the arabic hasn't changed at all translation may have become more precise and clearer but the arabic hasn't changed at all, it's always said the same thing. What is an original translation? I'm really not concerned with that because that is merely their opinion of what they believe the arabic means according to their understanding. So Someone may come along with a better understanding thus a better translation. But as I stated before the arabic has not changed at all this is why I am referring back to the original language "Arabic".

Now your claim is that this translation of the arabic was not there before science found that the earth was expanding. That's a bold claim, don't know how you would prove that you'd have to find a quran that was translated before that discovery and show that verse. But like I said even if you did That would not prove your case as I stated before, if ever this is a misunderstanding about the translation of the quran we refer back to the arabic.
Therefore you'd have to prove to me what I have given you is not what the arabic in the verse means..
Do that and you'll be successful!

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

The root word, وسع, occurs in a number of other places in the Qur’ân, most notable in the Verse of the Throne, 2:255. In that, allah’s kursi (translated as throne, but actually means footstool) EXTENDS over the heavens and the earth, it doesn’t ‘expand’ over them!

[Goat]

He didn't want to defend it I guess.

I have defended it..
Do you accept the proof I have given you?
Since this is a scientifically known fact which science with all its technology and resources have just come to know within the 100 years maybe less than that. My question then is how could the Prophet (pbuh) have known this information? There was no technology at the time and no resources for him to come to this conclusion. He could not read nor write not even his own name. his statement is true when he says he is the messenger of Allah.

If you believe he is not then you would have to account for where he could've got this knowledge.

It has been pointed out that , when going back into the original translation, that the translation is purposely incorrect. This new 'interpretation' didn't come out until the scientific knowledge came out, and there were other translations previous to the scientific knowledge that held sway before that.

One might ask why the sudden change in translation after something is known scientifically? Is it to sway the ignorant and the easily convinced?

What do you mean it has been pointed out? By who? Listen the arabic hasn't changed at all translation may have become more precise and clearer but the arabic hasn't changed at all, it's always said the same thing. What is an original translation? I'm really not concerned with that because that is merely their opinion of what they believe the arabic means according to their understanding. So Someone may come along with a better understanding thus a better translation. But as I stated before the arabic has not changed at all this is why I am referring back to the original language "Arabic".

Now your claim is that this translation of the arabic was not there before science found that the earth was expanding. That's a bold claim, don't know how you would prove that you'd have to find a quran that was translated before that discovery and show that verse. But like I said even if you did That would not prove your case as I stated before, if ever this is a misunderstanding about the translation of the quran we refer back to the arabic.
Therefore you'd have to prove to me what I have given you is not what the arabic in the verse means..
Do that and you'll be successful!

Well, the arabic has not changed. However, that alternate translation was not given until after the BB theory was common. I am sorry, but it is you that do not understand.

I will give you a challenge. Find me a translation that is from before 1950 that has the translation you claim .

[muhammad rasullah]

The root word, وسع, occurs in a number of other places in the Qur’ân, most notable in the Verse of the Throne, 2:255. In that, allah’s kursi (translated as throne, but actually means footstool) EXTENDS over the heavens and the earth, it doesn’t ‘expand’ over them!

I'm not an arabic expert but the arabic word is transliterated as Wasiaa
وَس�عَ
Doesn't appear in the verse 51:47 The word is لَم�وس�ع�ونَ lamoosiAAoona.

Whenever the word extend is seen in the quran doesn't mean that the arabic word Wasiaa is used.

56:30 In shade long-extended,

Wathillin mamdoodin مَّمْد�ود�

79:30 And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

Waalarda baAAda thalika dahaha

وَالْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَل�كَ دَحَاهَا

Also when the word Wasiaa is used it does not mean in another translation that translater will use extend


Yusuf Ali
2:255 His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
Muhammad Asad
2:255 GOD - His eternal power [248] overspreads the heavens and the earth, and their upholding wearies Him not. And he alone is truly exalted, tremendous.
You see this is merely a choice of words none of which has changed the meaning of the verse but what the translaters think it should say.
Another note to point here is that whenever Wasiaa is used in the quran it is not always translated as extend.

20:98 But the god of you all is the One Allah. there is no god but He: all things He comprehends in His knowledge.
Innama ilahukumu Allahu allathee la ilaha illa huwa wasiAAa kulla shayin AAilman

إ�نَّمَا إ�لَه�ك�م� اللَّه� الَّذ�ي لَا إ�لَهَ إ�لَّا ه�وَ وَس�عَ ك�لَّ شَيْء� ع�لْمًا

Wasiaa وَس�عَ

This really means nothing and it does not disprove the translation from verse 51:47 that expand is the correct translation of the arabic.

[Goat]

Wasiaa وَس�عَ

This really means nothing and it does not disprove the translation from verse 51:47 that expand is the correct translation of the arabic.

Well, you admit you are no expert, and we found a number of sources that disagree.

Like I said, there is a way to find if the 'translation' got modified . Find me a translation that is pre-big bang that talks about the expansion of the world in the way you say.

[muhammad rasullah]

He didn't want to defend it I guess.

I have defended it..
Do you accept the proof I have given you?
Since this is a scientifically known fact which science with all its technology and resources have just come to know within the 100 years maybe less than that. My question then is how could the Prophet (pbuh) have known this information? There was no technology at the time and no resources for him to come to this conclusion. He could not read nor write not even his own name. his statement is true when he says he is the messenger of Allah.

If you believe he is not then you would have to account for where he could've got this knowledge.

It has been pointed out that , when going back into the original translation, that the translation is purposely incorrect. This new 'interpretation' didn't come out until the scientific knowledge came out, and there were other translations previous to the scientific knowledge that held sway before that.

One might ask why the sudden change in translation after something is known scientifically? Is it to sway the ignorant and the easily convinced?

What do you mean it has been pointed out? By who? Listen the arabic hasn't changed at all translation may have become more precise and clearer but the arabic hasn't changed at all, it's always said the same thing. What is an original translation? I'm really not concerned with that because that is merely their opinion of what they believe the arabic means according to their understanding. So Someone may come along with a better understanding thus a better translation. But as I stated before the arabic has not changed at all this is why I am referring back to the original language "Arabic".

Now your claim is that this translation of the arabic was not there before science found that the earth was expanding. That's a bold claim, don't know how you would prove that you'd have to find a quran that was translated before that discovery and show that verse. But like I said even if you did That would not prove your case as I stated before, if ever this is a misunderstanding about the translation of the quran we refer back to the arabic.
Therefore you'd have to prove to me what I have given you is not what the arabic in the verse means..
Do that and you'll be successful!

Well, the arabic has not changed. However, that alternate translation was not given until after the BB theory was common. I am sorry, but it is you that do not understand.

I will give you a challenge. Find me a translation that is from before 1950 that has the translation you claim .

Listen you can't throw your claim on me that's supposed to be your job since you say that it was changed in the translation. you prove that it was changed. I said the arabic in the quran hasn't changed which you agreed to. So why do I have to prove a translation was their when I have just proven the arabic was. Makes no sense...Since the arabic hasn't changed that means it was always there. Meaning it always said the universe is expanding which science recently found after the fact.
You really just agreed it was always there by agreeing that the arabic hasn't changed.
I'm not arguing translations because those are man's interpretation of the Allah's word. I go to what Allah says.