Christianity is false because it contradicts itself.

[RyanP]

"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live." --Ezekiel 18:21-22

We are justified by our behavior.

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith." --Romans 3:28-30

We are justified by faith in Jesus Christ.

[OnceConvinced]

Do you have a question for discussion?

I don't think contradictions in the bible mean Christianity is false, but it certainly means the bible can't be taken as the infallible word of God or even God breathed.

[C-Nub]

Since you haven't asked a question, I'm afraid I'm going to have to guess in regards to what we're debating.



I'm pretty sure the Wonder Twins were the best members of the Super-Friends. Superman is the gimme-answer, but the wondertwins could just say 'form of... Superman' and do his job if they wanted to. Instead, they used their powers to fill in where needed. I think that's important. They can fill whatever role is required of them, and the girl Wonder-Twin (we'll call her Gina) was hella-hot.

[JoeyKnothead]

Yes, no, maybe.
Please apply the appropriate answer above to whatever question is up for debate.

[Skyler]

I think your title indicates that your question for debate is whether or not Christianity is internally consistent. That question is really the only way we can debate the truth or falsity of ultimate realities, so I'd have to say it's a good one.

"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live." --Ezekiel 18:21-22

We are justified by our behavior.

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith." --Romans 3:28-30

We are justified by faith in Jesus Christ.

The apparent contradiction lies in the two different perspectives of the authors. Ezekiel, looking from the human perspective, sees "Wicked man--repents--is forgiven". Paul, looking from a [Calvinist] perspective, sees "God gives wicked man faith & ability to repent--man repents--is forgiven".

It's like looking at a cone. Ezekiel looks at it from the bottom and says, "It's a circle!" Paul, looking from the side, sees a triangle. He compares his view with Ezekiel's and comes up with a cone.

Perspective is, I think, where many people trip up in reading the Bible, coming up with apparent contradictions because they failed to take into account the perspective from which the author was coming from.

[McCulloch]

The apparent contradiction lies in the two different perspectives of the authors. Ezekiel, looking from the human perspective, sees "Wicked man--repents--is forgiven". Paul, looking from a [Calvinist] perspective, sees "God gives wicked man faith & ability to repent--man repents--is forgiven".

It's like looking at a cone. Ezekiel looks at it from the bottom and says, "It's a circle!" Paul, looking from the side, sees a triangle. He compares his view with Ezekiel's and comes up with a cone.

Perspective is, I think, where many people trip up in reading the Bible, coming up with apparent contradictions because they failed to take into account the perspective from which the author was coming from.

Bravo! This is a valiant attempt to perform hermeneutic gymnastics. Evade the issue by claiming that the issue is simply a matter of perspective. However the difficulty is not brushed aside quite so easily. Ezekiel, echoed later by Jesus (the sheep and the goats) and his brother James (faith without works is dead), claims that salvation occurs Because of the righteous things he has done. Paul, on the other hand, makes very plain that salvation is on the basis of faith, without respect to any works, it is a free gift from God.

[Skyler]

The apparent contradiction lies in the two different perspectives of the authors. Ezekiel, looking from the human perspective, sees "Wicked man--repents--is forgiven". Paul, looking from a [Calvinist] perspective, sees "God gives wicked man faith & ability to repent--man repents--is forgiven".

It's like looking at a cone. Ezekiel looks at it from the bottom and says, "It's a circle!" Paul, looking from the side, sees a triangle. He compares his view with Ezekiel's and comes up with a cone.

Perspective is, I think, where many people trip up in reading the Bible, coming up with apparent contradictions because they failed to take into account the perspective from which the author was coming from.

Bravo! This is a valiant attempt to perform hermeneutic gymnastics. Evade the issue by claiming that the issue is simply a matter of perspective. However the difficulty is not brushed aside quite so easily. Ezekiel, echoed later by Jesus (the sheep and the goats) and his brother James (faith without works is dead), claims that salvation occurs Because of the righteous things he has done. Paul, on the other hand, makes very plain that salvation is on the basis of faith, without respect to any works, it is a free gift from God.

One of my favorite analogies, from the Christian perspective, is the fruit of the Spirit. They aren't "requirements" to maintain the Christian life, because it's impossible for fallen man to conform to them at all times. Rather, they are the "fruits" that grow when one is walking with the Spirit. It's the same thing with works--they're "fruits" that grow from the state of having faith.

[McCulloch]

One of my favorite analogies, from the Christian perspective, is the fruit of the Spirit. They aren't "requirements" to maintain the Christian life, because it's impossible for fallen man to conform to them at all times. Rather, they are the "fruits" that grow when one is walking with the Spirit. It's the same thing with works--they're "fruits" that grow from the state of having faith.

Then Ezekiel would be wrong to claim that salvation is Because of the righteous things he has done. Right? Ol' Zeke has it backwards. The righteous do what they do because they are saved.

[Skyler]

One of my favorite analogies, from the Christian perspective, is the fruit of the Spirit. They aren't "requirements" to maintain the Christian life, because it's impossible for fallen man to conform to them at all times. Rather, they are the "fruits" that grow when one is walking with the Spirit. It's the same thing with works--they're "fruits" that grow from the state of having faith.

Then Ezekiel would be wrong to claim that salvation is Because of the righteous things he has done. Right? Ol' Zeke has it backwards. The righteous do what they do because they are saved.

Yes. Taken as a standalone statement, Ezekiel is wrong. A circle is not a cone.

However, taken in the larger context of Scripture as a whole, the truth of his perspective becomes clear: A cone does, in fact, appear circular, from beneath; that's a fundamental part of being a cone. But, it doesn't mean the cone is a circle. Neither does it mean that it is contradictory to say that one person sees it as a circle, while the other sees it as a triangle. It's simply a different perspective.

[McCulloch]

One of my favorite analogies, from the Christian perspective, is the fruit of the Spirit. They aren't "requirements" to maintain the Christian life, because it's impossible for fallen man to conform to them at all times. Rather, they are the "fruits" that grow when one is walking with the Spirit. It's the same thing with works--they're "fruits" that grow from the state of having faith.

Then Ezekiel would be wrong to claim that salvation is Because of the righteous things he has done. Right? Ol' Zeke has it backwards. The righteous do what they do because they are saved.

Yes. Taken as a standalone statement, Ezekiel is wrong. A circle is not a cone.

However, taken in the larger context of Scripture as a whole, the truth of his perspective becomes clear: A cone does, in fact, appear circular, from beneath; that's a fundamental part of being a cone. But, it doesn't mean the cone is a circle. Neither does it mean that it is contradictory to say that one person sees it as a circle, while the other sees it as a triangle. It's simply a different perspective.

You lost me with the analogy. Let me try to restate what you said without the circle and cone analogy.

Yes. Taken as a standalone statement, Ezekiel is wrong. Salvation because of works is not a salvation by faith.

However, taken in the larger context of Scripture as a whole, the truth of his perspective becomes clear: Salvation by faith does appear as salvation because of works, from one perspective; that's a fundamental part of salvation by faith. But, it doesn't mean the salvation by faith is salvation because of works. Neither does it mean that it is contradictory to say that one person sees salvation because of works, while the other sees it as salvation by faith. It's simply a different perspective.