Paganism

[Antagonist]

I would like some first hand information about (modern) Paganism.

I have some questions:

- What is paganism about?
- What do you worship?
- How do friends/family or other non-Pagans react to your Religion?
- Do Pagans have some kind of Church or Holy Book?
- How where you converted/ What made you become a Pagan?

I'm just very interested. you don't hear much about Paganism and since there is no topic about it I decided to make one.

Non- Pagans feel free to reply. what do you think/know about Paganism?

[Grand Pbuh]

Your fairy tale has made you a bigot.

Highly unlikely since I also say I struggle with this Satan all the time, and have lost a lot when I fail to stay close to God. I simply don't make Satan a lifestyle choice at this time.

So we should stick to arguing the concepts and try not to divert by personalizing them.

[JoeyKnothead]

Your fairy tale has made you a bigot.

Highly unlikely since I also say I struggle with this Satan all the time, and have lost a lot when I fail to stay close to God. I simply don't make Satan a lifestyle choice at this time.

So we should stick to arguing the concepts and try not to divert by personalizing them.

When your religious text declares unbelievers as Satan, your religious text is a bigot.

When you believe your religious text is correct in calling others Satan, then you're a bigot.

When you condemn others simply because they don't accept your unsupported assertions, you're a bigot.

You, and your religious text have made this personal, not me.

When you call me Satan simply because I don't accept your fanciful tales, then you are a bigot. And I take that personal.

You're a coward of the highest order, hiding behind the internet to spew your filth. You're a coward like all the rest who use religious texts as a pretext to insult others. You're a coward because you refuse to take responsibility for your own hatred. You're a coward because you refuse to accept that non-believers can have any merit at all.

You call me Satan, and then wonder why I take it personal?

You use slander, smear, and lies to spread your religion. Prove I'm Satan. Oh, yeah, you can't. Your book of tales is the only proof you have. And you hide behind it in order to insult others who disagree.

:censored:

[Grand Pbuh]

[When you call me Satan simply because I don't accept your fanciful tales, then you are a bigot. And I take that personal.

I never called you Satan. For all I know you could be a Christian playing devil's advocate to hone your debating skills. You just decided to take it personally.

But yes, according to the Bible, when anyone including myself follows our own wills in opposition to God, that is Satan. That's fine if you say the Bible is bigoted against the idea of departing from God, it is.

And if you insist on personalizing then fine, I'm bigoted against the idea of departing from God too. Especially when I depart from God myself and it wreaks havoc in my own life. So that should settle that.

[JoeyKnothead]

[When you call me Satan simply because I don't accept your fanciful tales, then you are a bigot. And I take that personal.

I never called you Satan. For all I know you could be a Christian playing devil's advocate to hone your debating skills. You just decided to take it personally.

But yes, according to the Bible, when anyone including myself follows our own wills in opposition to God, that is Satan. That's fine if you say the Bible is bigoted against the idea of departing from God, it is.

And if you insist on personalizing then fine, I'm bigoted against the idea of departing from God too. Especially when I depart from God myself and it wreaks havoc in my own life. So that should settle that.

At least you agree you are a bigot.

[Grand Pbuh]

At least you agree you are a bigot.

It's kind of necessary to be bigoted against atheism if you are a theist, there's not any room for it. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm bigoted against atheists, since I associate with them in everyday life. We just don't talk religion, they know my position and I know theirs, and there it stays. As long as atheists don't get in my face with it I'm fine with them.

[C-Nub]

I'm probably the last person here who should be saying this, but calm down a bit there Joey, your arguments are at their best when you're not all ticked off.

I hate a bigot too, and I agree with you. But that's one of the many things religion makes people capable of. I believe this and you don't so I'm better than you, one of the oldest stories in the book and the principle dangers of faith.

[JoeyKnothead]

Satanism claims to be worship of self, not devil worship, so it is just another form of atheism as it appears.
Though all atheism is devil worship according to the Bible, since if you don't have God, Satan is the default god of this world.

But there is the yetzer hatov good inclination of God, or the yetzer hara bad inclination of Satan. If you reject God then you make Satan a god instead. So they are always doing battle with each other inside of each person.

Not really. The bad choice is following yourself instead of God, there is no boogeyman holding candy out to tempt you. That self-will without God is bad and thus Satan. As well as atheism and secularism.

Is this not calling me Satan? Is this not trying to demonize me? Is this not a bigot's way to silence dissent? Just declare all who don't believe as you a demon, a devil, a Satan. "It's in the Bible". "The Bible says it's correct". Thus this poster is correct in equating me with Satan?

There is no proof offered of any alleged dealings I have had with Satan. I don't even believe in Satan. This poster is hiding behind the Bible to insult all who disagree with his position, and I will have none of it.

I will not sit idle while some use slander in order to demean those they disagree with. Either the poster proves I'm in league with Satan, or he withdraws, and quits trying to condemn people simply because they don't agree.

I am by the rules of this forum not allowed to slander others, and I will continually, repeatedly, and as often as needed point out when others are trying to slander me.

This poster has made a blanket statement about atheists, yet when I make blanket statements about the religious I am told it's wrong, that I should only judge religion by the good. How in heck are we to have an honest debate when one side is able to make blanket statements about atheists, but they are immune to responsibility for their bigoted words?

(edits to correct quote tags)

[C-Nub]

Joey, when someone walks into a post, are they slandering you? When they answer a math question with a picture of a horsie? When they ride a short bus to school or wear a helmet for walking? Do you blame someone who's parents are cousins or for being raised in a Klingon speaking household? People cannot be held accountable by limitations imposed upon them by circumstance, and that's something to consider when arguing with people who don't understand basic principles like the ones you are trying to illustrate.

You're not being insulted, I doubt your opponent has the means, nor are you being slandered. He cannot see that the rejection of the supernatural is different and unlike the substitution of it. It would make absolutely the same amount of sense if he said 'You don't worship jesus? Richard Simmons must be your God.'

It isn't insulting, and it isn't worth anger. It's worth a little pity, and maybe some extra funding to whatever educational system he's a product of, but if he cannot understand the idea of non-theism or anti-theism, and thinks it must by definition be counter-theism, then what you're dealing with is a basic inability to understand a simple concept, and not slander.

I assure you, Joe, you've been very clear with your point of view, and the fault at the misunderstanding does lie with you.

[Grand Pbuh]

It's worth a little pity, and maybe some extra funding to whatever educational system he's a product of, but if he cannot understand the idea of non-theism or anti-theism, and thinks it must by definition be counter-theism, then what you're dealing with is a basic inability to understand a simple concept, and not slander.

Cute, but of course I understand your view of atheism. I just happen to think mine is more correct.

At any rate if he feels victimized during discussions of atheism from a biblical view, he should consider just not participating in them. I don't see that he's receiving any benefit, only trauma. But you are correct not to encourage him in general, I'll give you that.

[C-Nub]

I wasn't trying to be cute. I do pity you, which isn't to say that I don't find your unfounded and baseless theistic condescension annoying and patronizing. You also have to choose between saying you understand that we don't believe in any supernatural power and believing we worship Satan by default because we deny God. You can't ignorantly spout off about us being devil worshipers and later pretend you have even the slightest grasp of what makes an atheist or non-theist define themselves as such. They're, and this is a term I've been using a lot lately, mutually exclusive concepts, meaning that one cannot co-exist with the other, at least not without quantifiers (/ vigorous back-peddling).

Without meaning to speak for Joey, I doubt very much like he feels victimized, I doubt he even acknowledges you have the ability to do so to him. Rather, he appears to feel slighted by the means in which you have chosen to express your opinion, which is to say, the way you have laced it with condescension, conjecture, hyperbole, unsupported assertions and religious intolerance. I would find it equally as insulting if I weren't just as sure as you appear to be that I and those like me, and not you, are right. The only difference there is that I have evidence, which rhymes with but is not quite the same as 'ignorance.'