Why are some Christian's so blind to their hypocrisy?

[achilles12604]

I ran across this article today, and despite it being from a media source, I believe it.

Fellow people who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus, I ask you . . . why are so many who call themselves Christians so hateful towards gays? Why are those who claim to show the love of Jesus to the world, so prejudice and spiteful towards this particular group?

And finally, why do they behave in such a hypocritical manner when according to the Gospels Jesus NEVER EVEN ADDRESSES homosexuality as a problem?

Why do those like Sarah Palin hate gays so much, and yet claim to speak on behalf of one who's recorded words utter so much love and forgiveness? Why do Christian's support someone like her?

[otseng]

Why do those like Sarah Palin hate gays so much

Didn't know anything about this. Do you have a source for this?

[achilles12604]

Why do those like Sarah Palin hate gays so much

Didn't know anything about this. Do you have a source for this?

Click on the link in the op. It brings you to the news article. They have decided to "pray away" people's gayness. They are telling them to come forth and be prayed over and "healed". I wonder how people would react if we told blacks to come forward so we could pray for them to become white.

[Vanguard]

Fellow people who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus, I ask you . . . why are so many who call themselves Christians so hateful towards gays? Why are those who claim to show the love of Jesus to the world, so prejudice and spiteful towards this particular group?

Sorry, I did not notice where the article addressed the hatred, prejudice, or spite you claim?

And finally, why do they behave in such a hypocritical manner when according to the Gospels Jesus NEVER EVEN ADDRESSES homosexuality as a problem?

I'm not sure where the hypocrisy is?

Why do those like Sarah Palin hate gays so much, and yet claim to speak on behalf of one who's recorded words utter so much love and forgiveness? Why do Christian's support someone like her?

Once again, I did not notice where the article even suggests Sarah Palin hates gays so much? Am I reading a different article?

achilles, this OP does not seem like you? You know, wide-sweeping conclusions almost created out of whole cloth? I personally do not have a problem in theory with religious organizations seeking to help those who would rather not carry a homosexual orientation. Though I consider it an uphill battle and almost misdirected, more power to those who would claim the intervention was a success, no?

As an aside, though I am Republican I am only reluctantly voting for the McCain/Palin ticket for two reasons, 1) Gov. Palin is quite the inexerienced one on the national stage much less on the international and, 2) I am conflicted about the message her nomination would send re: the central role that motherhood plays in the lives of young children all the more when one is a special-needs child (I got a lot of heat for this 2nd reason from both political camps on another site... ).

[otseng]

Why do those like Sarah Palin hate gays so much

Didn't know anything about this. Do you have a source for this?

Click on the link in the op. It brings you to the news article. They have decided to "pray away" people's gayness. They are telling them to come forth and be prayed over and "healed". I wonder how people would react if we told blacks to come forward so we could pray for them to become white.

I would not interpret that to mean Palin hating gays.

Article states she "has not publicly expressed a view on the so-called "pray away the gay" movement". So there is no direct link there. And even if there was a link, it doesn't mean she hates them.

She does opposes gay marriage and spousal rights for gay couples. But that also doesn't equate to hating them.

(And full disclosure, I'm not voting for McCain/Palin.)

[achilles12604]

Why do those like Sarah Palin hate gays so much

Didn't know anything about this. Do you have a source for this?

Click on the link in the op. It brings you to the news article. They have decided to "pray away" people's gayness. They are telling them to come forth and be prayed over and "healed". I wonder how people would react if we told blacks to come forward so we could pray for them to become white.

I would not interpret that to mean Palin hating gays.

Article states she "has not publicly expressed a view on the so-called "pray away the gay" movement". So there is no direct link there. And even if there was a link, it doesn't mean she hates them.

She does opposes gay marriage and spousal rights for gay couples. But that also doesn't equate to hating them.

(And full disclosure, I'm not voting for McCain/Palin.)

Ok so let's examine this by comparing it to blacks.

People are genetically black. They are also genetically gay.

The article states that this church (and mind you in the OP I stated that I was addressing christian churches in general, not just her) is going to "pray" for people so they can be "converted" into hetrosexuals.

What do you think the reaction would be if church members were actively praying for blacks so they could become more white?

Am I really the only one who finds fellow Christian's praying for gay's to convert to hetrosexuality an offensive thing to do?

[achilles12604]

Sorry, I did not notice where the article addressed the hatred, prejudice, or spite you claim?

I will put it to you the same way I put it to Otseng.

People are genetically gay. People are also genetically black.

If you read an article about a group of people praying to god that he would "convert" the blacks to whites, would you not consider that group to be prejudice? Would that group not offend you as a fellow believer?

This church gathered to "pray" for people to be healed and become "hetrosexual".

That is prejudice in my opinion.

I'm not sure where the hypocrisy is?

Jesus speaks of loving your neighbor unconditionally. He speaks of not judging others. He speaks of taking the plank out of your own eye before helping your brother with the speck in his.

In my opinion, praying that someone's genetic makeup changes to make them more like the praying party is not loving them. It is certainly judging them. And assuming that being gay really is a terrible sin (which I disagree with), they should probably be focused on their own problems before calling out an entire group and pointing fingers at them accusingly.

As they are not practicing what they preach, they fall into the realm of hypocrisy.

Why do those like Sarah Palin hate gays so much, and yet claim to speak on behalf of one who's recorded words utter so much love and forgiveness? Why do Christian's support someone like her?

Once again, I did not notice where the article even suggests Sarah Palin hates gays so much? Am I reading a different article?

Ok perhaps hate was to strong. But I still maintain that their behavior was offensive, prejudice, short sighted, and hypocritical to claims that they are following the teachings of Jesus.

achilles, this OP does not seem like you? You know, wide-sweeping conclusions almost created out of whole cloth? I personally do not have a problem in theory with religious organizations seeking to help those who would rather not carry a homosexual orientation. Though I consider it an uphill battle and almost misdirected, more power to those who would claim the intervention was a success, no?

My OP says why are SOME Christian's blind. My OP does not say "Why are ALL Christian's so hypocritical." I even specified further citing Christian's who do this action.

I disagree that my OP is wide sweeping. I wrote it to be very specific.

As an aside, though I am Republican I am only reluctantly voting for the McCain/Palin ticket for two reasons, 1) Gov. Palin is quite the inexerienced one on the national stage much less on the international and, 2) I am conflicted about the message her nomination would send re: the central role that motherhood plays in the lives of young children all the more when one is a special-needs child (I got a lot of heat for this 2nd reason from both political camps on another site... ).

I am not trying to be as political here as I am simply addressing an issue I see in the church. The fact that it was Palin's church was more coincidence. Had the article been written about some random church, I would have reacted the same.

[otseng]

People are genetically black. They are also genetically gay.

I agree with the former. But I don't agree with the latter.

The article states that this church (and mind you in the OP I stated that I was addressing christian churches in general, not just her) is going to "pray" for people so they can be "converted" into hetrosexuals.

But, for arguments sake, let's assume that your basic assumption is correct. Even if people prayed for blacks to be converted to whites, that in itself would not mean that they hate blacks. They might be bigoted, ignorant, or mislead, but doesn't necessarily mean that they hate them.

Am I really the only one who finds fellow Christian's praying for gay's to convert to hetrosexuality an offensive thing to do?

Well, if a gay person asked for this type of prayer, no, it would not be offensive. And if they did not ask for it, then it would be more pointless than offensive. My guess though is that the conference mentioned in the article would be directed towards the former.

I find it interesting how the media are stretching things to try to find some ways to attack Palin. And this article would be a good example. Another was something I heard on NPR about how her Pentecostal background would shape her worldview. Such issues to me are meaningless about her qualifications.

[achilles12604]

People are genetically black. They are also genetically gay.

I agree with the former. But I don't agree with the latter.

I smell another good thread.

The article states that this church (and mind you in the OP I stated that I was addressing christian churches in general, not just her) is going to "pray" for people so they can be "converted" into hetrosexuals.

But, for arguments sake, let's assume that your basic assumption is correct. Even if people prayed for blacks to be converted to whites, that in itself would not mean that they hate blacks. They might be bigoted, ignorant, or mislead, but doesn't necessarily mean that they hate them.

True. As I said to Vangaurd, perhaps "hate" was to strong a word. I still stand by prejudiced.

Am I really the only one who finds fellow Christian's praying for gay's to convert to hetrosexuality an offensive thing to do?

Well, if a gay person asked for this type of prayer, no, it would not be offensive. And if they did not ask for it, then it would be more pointless than offensive. My guess though is that the conference mentioned in the article would be directed towards the former.

'

If they asked for prayer, then no there is no issue.



UPDATE:

I went ahead and looked into the group "love won out" itself. *sigh*. After years you would think I would check my sources out first.

http://www.lovewonout.com/questions/

They are praying for those who would like to get rid of those feelings.

So my entire thread is mute. I have a suggestion. I would like a "tuck tail and run" smiley. For now this will have to do.

I have met churches who do exactly what I was describing. They "pray" for all the gays of the world to "give up" and "repent". I was in a church service in Broomfield (about 2 years ago) when this happened and I was astounded. Frankly blown away.

As for the media, much of what is reported is accurate. Some is not. But that goes for both sides in my opinion. After all Fox news reported that Obama was a Muslim for at least a week. You can still find it in their archives.

Ok, well now I shall shift my OP.

To the groups like the one I encountered who "blanket" pray for all gays to "convert", would you find THEIR actions in keeping with Jesus teachings?



BTW - If you click on the link I provided above . . . here I will provide it again . . .

http://www.lovewonout.com/questions/

and you read down to the third question, you will find that at least this group does side with science that homosexual behavior is in fact not a choice but rather a combination of genetics and events. If you wish, I think this would indeed make a good side thread.








Thanks and praises to Otseng who forced me to once again check my own sources rather than assume that my experiences were being repeated in other settings.

Any comments about my *ahem* amended OP?

[Vanguard]

Though I am aware of your concession made to otseng (I seem to be "Johnny come lately" with each of my posts!), I will still address your most recent response to me as I believe it is still instructive though only academic at this point.

Sorry, I did not notice where the article addressed the hatred, prejudice, or spite you claim?

I will put it to you the same way I put it to Otseng.

People are genetically gay. People are also genetically black.

Please provide a link that would confirm people are gentically gay. Additionally, please provide information that genetics alone determine a person's reality in every case.

If you read an article about a group of people praying to god that he would "convert" the blacks to whites, would you not consider that group to be prejudice? Would that group not offend you as a fellow believer?

If this were indeed the case, I would be offended. See my previous comment.

This church gathered to "pray" for people to be healed and become "hetrosexual".

That is prejudice in my opinion.

I would need more information before making this conclusion and I don't believe the article provides this.

In my opinion, praying that someone's genetic makeup changes to make them more like the praying party is not loving them. It is certainly judging them. And assuming that being gay really is a terrible sin (which I disagree with), they should probably be focused on their own problems before calling out an entire group and pointing fingers at them accusingly.

As they are not practicing what they preach, they fall into the realm of hypocrisy.

As the article presents itself I do not see hypocrisy though focusing on how great a sin the homosexual lifestyle is not conducive to the mandate to love our neighbor. Not only that, I chose to delineate between "sin" and "trangression" whereas the former connotes a deviation against an ideal one knows to be true and the later is simply a deviation from the ideal without an appreciation that it is such.

Furthermore, I do agree many in the Christian fold focus disproportionately on the sins of others all the while hiding their own closet skeletons...

[/b], this OP does not seem like you? You know, wide-sweeping conclusions almost created out of whole cloth? I personally do not have a problem in theory with religious organizations seeking to help those who would rather not carry a homosexual orientation. Though I consider it an uphill battle and almost misdirected, more power to those who would claim the intervention was a success, no?

My OP says why are SOME Christian's blind. My OP does not say "Why are ALL Christian's so hypocritical." I even specified further citing Christian's who do this action.

I disagree that my OP is wide sweeping. I wrote it to be very specific.

I did not suggest you were speaking of Christianity in it's entirety though it was wide-sweeping and "out of whole cloth" against that little band of religionists in the article, was it not?

__________________________________________

To the groups like the one I encountered who "blanket" pray for all gays to "convert", would you find THEIR actions in keeping with Jesus teachings?

Those types of "outward lamentations" leave me ill at ease. It smacks of something though I cannot put my finger on it... I would rather not make what I consider a public mockery of a very personal, intimate life-decision that my gay brethren have taken. I don't believe Jesus would have us do such.

I do agree an OP on the genetics of homosexuality would be a good one though.