If God wants to destroy evil...

[Zarathustra]

God created everything that has been, is, and is going to be in existence. He created the Earth and the Heavens. He created the Lake of Fire in which he casts sinners. He created Good, and He created evil. Does not the old adage says "I have created you, and so can I destroy you"?

If God wanted to, couldn't He, in theory, destroy evil with no need for the battle of the apocalypse?

[bernee51]

From the tone of your reply, I can see you are simply poking fun, but my answer is completely sincere. Much is unfolding at this very moment, as we are being brought “back on line” as it were. Out of what appears to be tumoil, will come the time of peace our little planet has needed and yearned for, for so long.

Bro Dave

I do not doubt the sincerity of your reply nor your beliefs. And I was not simply poking fun, I was seriously poking fun. You make extraordinary claims, all of which are based on a book with no other collaborative support.

Extrordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. Can you offer any?

[Bro Dave]

I do not doubt the sincerity of your reply nor your beliefs. And I was not simply poking fun, I was seriously poking fun. You make extraordinary claims, all of which are based on a book with no other collaborative support.

Extrordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. Can you offer any?

Actually, yes, but with a caviot; It would require you to test it by a personal effort. That which is true, is true, but will remain outside our grasp until examined. I can tell from your posts that you are very intelligent, and this is like shooting fish in a barrel for you. Most folks have inherited belief systems, and they fall apart when asked to support them.
It is a rare person who is both inquisitive enough, and capable of sufficient impartiality really to examine anything different from what they currently think. You may be one of those, I just do not know...

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

Actually, yes, but with a caviot; It would require you to test it by a personal effort.

Proof with a caveat? That I suspend rational thought?

My own search is one of personal effort - based around meditation and self enquiry with a healthy dose of rationality and scepticism

That which is true, is true, but will remain outside our grasp until examined.

There is a truth I am aware of - impermanance.

Most folks have inherited belief systems, and they fall apart when asked to support them.

Some fall apart - others defer to the 'god works in mysterious ways' defence.

It is a rare person who is both inquisitive enough, and capable of sufficient impartiality really to examine anything different from what they currently think.

Challenge is the only way to change, change is the only way to growth. If I don't challenge myself, the universe will do it for me.

[Bro Dave]

It is a rare person who is both inquisitive enough, and capable of sufficient impartiality really to examine anything different from what they currently think.

Challenge is the only way to change, change is the only way to growth. If I don't challenge myself, the universe will do it for me.

Then my friend, you stand on firm ground indeed; Those that "seek" are assured of "finding"...

Good Job!

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

Then my friend, you stand on firm ground indeed; Those that "seek" are assured of "finding"...

Thanks for the vote of confidence Bro. I however prefer to think that those who truly seek will go on seeking...basically because they understand there is nothing to find.

The seeking I refer to is how to deal with the lies told by ego. I seek to realise that in order to have a truly peaceful existence I must lose the attachment we all have to the impermanent. I seek a realisation that to seek is futile because what we seek we have already.

What I seek is Nothing.

Good Job!

I have to do it for myself - no one can do it for me. Not the bible and it's god, nor jesus and his 'sacrifice', nor the koran and allah, nor Urantia and it's committee.

[Bro Dave]

[I have to do it for myself - no one can do it for me. Not the bible and it's god, nor jesus and his 'sacrifice', nor the koran and allah, nor Urantia and it's committee.

Hats off Bernee51, you are truly wise. While we will disagree on answers, your method is right on the money in my humble opinion. And, who knows were our roads will ultimately lead? they just might converge eventually...

Bro Dave

[Bro Dave]

[I have to do it for myself - no one can do it for me. Not the bible and it's god, nor jesus and his 'sacrifice', nor the koran and allah, nor Urantia and it's committee.

Hats off Bernee51, you are truly wise. While we will disagree on answers, your method is right on the money in my humble opinion. And, who knows were our roads will ultimately lead? they just might converge eventually...

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

[I have to do it for myself - no one can do it for me. Not the bible and it's god, nor jesus and his 'sacrifice', nor the koran and allah, nor Urantia and it's committee.

Hats off Bernee51, you are truly wise. While we will disagree on answers, your method is right on the money in my humble opinion. And, who knows were our roads will ultimately lead? they just might converge eventually...

Bro Dave

Bro: thanks for the vote of confidence (twice)

I do believe that whatever the path the destination is the same...we go from whence we came. There is absolutely no avoiding it.

The path, however, is what is important. Life is too short and too precious to be ruled by beliefs which fill the believer with fear and guilt. Beliefs which promote attachment to the unattainable and impermanent through self deception. Stories of a glorious afterlife are an example of the lies the ego tells in order to shield itself from a truth that is, for most, to painful to even contemplate.

The journey is more important than the destination as the journey is life and the destination is Nothing.

I love my journey but I do not fear the destination.

[spetey]

Things seem to have gone off-topic. I'm still curious: why would God allow (for example) something like the tsunami to kill hundreds of thousands, including thousands of innocent children? Of course it's cheating to say "God has God's reasons; we must have faith that it was for the best to torture and kill those children." This is simply an appeal to faith, and (as I argue here) that is not acceptable.


spetey

[harvey1]

Things seem to have gone off-topic. I'm still curious: why would God allow (for example) something like the tsunami to kill hundreds of thousands, including thousands of innocent children? Of course it's cheating to say "God has God's reasons; we must have faith that it was for the best to torture and kill those children." This is simply an appeal to faith, and (as I argue here) that is not acceptable.

The problem of evil is a boundary problem. That is, God sets boundaries of the world, and the world commits deeds that would be viewed as evil (or leading to the consequence of evil) by someone having good morals. For example, an earthquake causing tsunami waves and killing humans is a horrible tragedy. The alleged evil on God's part is that the boundaries of evil were not set tight enough to prevent evil happening to those who cannot reasonably be held responsible for their own actions. Hence, by not selecting tighter boundaries, God is culpable. Of course, atheists do not say God is culpable, they say God does not exist since a good God, if such Good existed, would not allow such actions to begin with.

The argument is off-base since God is good not because evil cannot exist, rather God is good because God is active in bringing about good. The tragedies that exist, do not impinge God of immoral acts since it all assumes that God is a person who sits back and watches the whole tragedy unfold and doesn't do anything at all to stop it. This might be how many theists think, but it is not how I see it at all.

Rather, God exists. As a result of God existing, all possible (P) events in total for the world have existence (Et). If P(Et) includes a tsunami in Dec, 2004, then it includes that. God is not responsible for P(Et). It's a brute fact. However, God is active in P(Et) to bring about good in every event as much as allowed by preserving the structure P(Et). That is, God cannot and must not disrupt the structure of P(Et) since this structure is the basis by which there is anything at all.

Next problem...