Here are some facts:
We as humans are imperfect
We have limited perception
We have limited knowledge
What I don’t know is this:
Is Satan, Evil?
Is Jesus, Good?
I need to understand the meaning of ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’. So when I talk about Good and Evil, I understand what it is. Until I know these two things, I will not know if Jesus is Good, or if Satan is bad.
Is Jesus Good? Is Satan Evil?
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Simon_Peter
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Simon_Peter
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Post #2
Hello All Good people,
I do not intend to capsize the boat, or sabotage peoples faith. However, i think Jesus is more than a man. He is greater than all of us. Science has proven he existed. His teachings are real. They do communicate something to us. I am not a theologian, i am not a Christan, i do not hold true to any religion, I will not be bullied into anything, and i do not worship, Simply this:
I am in the pursuit of truth
I believe those teachings which people hold true to themselves, should never be debated or questioned. If those teachings makes you a better person, then who am i to judge. I find that being Good in this world, is the only Truth. I do not mean being Good to yourself, nor do i mean that you shouldn't be Good to yourself. I do not mean being Good to people, purely for the sake of being Good. I do not mean sacrificing or holding back from being Good. This is called an Ideal to be 'Good' for the sake of Goodness, Which is what Jesus is. He is an Ideal. So of cause Jesus is 'Good', because he is Good personified. Ideally i will be Good all the time, i will be Good simply because that is who i am. I do not pretend to be Good, for the sake of others. I do not confine to peoples expectations of what being Good means.
However here is the tricky bit...
If i am perfectly Good, but that might mean that i do not confine to peoples expectation of what Good is. Well basically if i am 'Good', Then i will become an outcast.
Example:
A lawyer knows someone is 100% guilty, but argues with the opposition. And that man is found not guilty. But really he is. The lawyers company, will think he has done a Good job. This is not Good. However if the Lawyer did the Good thing, then he would be fired. If people want to be Good in this world, then the system needs to be set up not to punish those who are. But the system cannot say, if someone was Good, then you can become an exception to society. This will lead to discrimination. Which is not Good. So the world cannot be this ideal place that Jesus teaches about, unless everyone in the world are taught the truth, and most importantly to Live the Truth. I don't think we should teach non-Christians to have faith in the Lord Jesus God, simply because he has dominance over us. Or that if you don't believe in Jesus the Saviour, you will go to hell.
If we do we are not teaching people to choose Jesus, because he is Good, that he is the righteous path. We are coerced into following him, out of fear. And this is most ceartinly not 'Good'. And anything not good, is not the word of our Saviour, it is the word of Evil.
We should teach humanity to become better. So what is this 'better', What is this 'Good'. How shall we change. We all have different motivations. It is motivation that sets us apart are we motivated by greed or by the truth. If we motivate people by using fear tactics. Then this is not good. Rather motivate, so we can create a system where Goodness can prosper.
The only Truth is be Good
Thanks everyone.
...Also i have answered your first question, Jesus is the embodiment of Good, but sometimes his message does get lost.
So next question, which is far harder to answer...
Is Satan Evil?
Anyone who wishes to answer should consider this: We have freewill in heaven, what prevents us from doing evil in heaven? I dont belive anyone is Evil, but everyone can commit evil acts. I think Evil is the product of everyones choices combined. No one person can be blamed for the existence of Evil. But everyone has consequences of doing wrong. And those that do wrong contribute to the growing Evil.
Satan used to be the highest of all angels, Satan, was the closet to God, closer than anyone has been. Satan wanted to takes God place, however that act in itself is not Evil, that is just greedy. And a belief system based on greed, will create a system of both good and evil just like on earth. So God needs to prevent that, by kicking Satan out, because Satan would have unbalanced heaven and created a place for evil. However Satan has been personified as Evil, but Satan is not Evil. All Satan did was make a mistake, and that mistake would have lead to the creation of evil in heaven.
So is Satan evil?
...or is everyone that follows Satan misguided by Satan's perversion of the Truth, and everyone under his influence, contributes to the Growing Evil. Where i think Satan went wrong is simply this:
He did not apologize and see the error of his ways, greed, will never create a perfect harmonious balance. And will never create a paradise. But what i am saying is that, no one is evil. But everyone contributes to it. By being misguided, And everyone contributing to evil, has consequences. Everyone who has contributed will be placed with those contributers. Unless Jesus does save you, but he will only save you. If you do not upset the balance of heaven.
Thats what i think. But we should not teach that to anyone even if the bible says so!!!!!
We should teach everyone how to create heaven on earth, and then worry about getting into heaven later.
P.s sorry for answering my questions...
Kindest Regards,
Simon Peter John Gately
I do not intend to capsize the boat, or sabotage peoples faith. However, i think Jesus is more than a man. He is greater than all of us. Science has proven he existed. His teachings are real. They do communicate something to us. I am not a theologian, i am not a Christan, i do not hold true to any religion, I will not be bullied into anything, and i do not worship, Simply this:
I am in the pursuit of truth
I believe those teachings which people hold true to themselves, should never be debated or questioned. If those teachings makes you a better person, then who am i to judge. I find that being Good in this world, is the only Truth. I do not mean being Good to yourself, nor do i mean that you shouldn't be Good to yourself. I do not mean being Good to people, purely for the sake of being Good. I do not mean sacrificing or holding back from being Good. This is called an Ideal to be 'Good' for the sake of Goodness, Which is what Jesus is. He is an Ideal. So of cause Jesus is 'Good', because he is Good personified. Ideally i will be Good all the time, i will be Good simply because that is who i am. I do not pretend to be Good, for the sake of others. I do not confine to peoples expectations of what being Good means.
However here is the tricky bit...
If i am perfectly Good, but that might mean that i do not confine to peoples expectation of what Good is. Well basically if i am 'Good', Then i will become an outcast.
Example:
A lawyer knows someone is 100% guilty, but argues with the opposition. And that man is found not guilty. But really he is. The lawyers company, will think he has done a Good job. This is not Good. However if the Lawyer did the Good thing, then he would be fired. If people want to be Good in this world, then the system needs to be set up not to punish those who are. But the system cannot say, if someone was Good, then you can become an exception to society. This will lead to discrimination. Which is not Good. So the world cannot be this ideal place that Jesus teaches about, unless everyone in the world are taught the truth, and most importantly to Live the Truth. I don't think we should teach non-Christians to have faith in the Lord Jesus God, simply because he has dominance over us. Or that if you don't believe in Jesus the Saviour, you will go to hell.
If we do we are not teaching people to choose Jesus, because he is Good, that he is the righteous path. We are coerced into following him, out of fear. And this is most ceartinly not 'Good'. And anything not good, is not the word of our Saviour, it is the word of Evil.
We should teach humanity to become better. So what is this 'better', What is this 'Good'. How shall we change. We all have different motivations. It is motivation that sets us apart are we motivated by greed or by the truth. If we motivate people by using fear tactics. Then this is not good. Rather motivate, so we can create a system where Goodness can prosper.
The only Truth is be Good
Thanks everyone.
...Also i have answered your first question, Jesus is the embodiment of Good, but sometimes his message does get lost.
So next question, which is far harder to answer...
Is Satan Evil?
Anyone who wishes to answer should consider this: We have freewill in heaven, what prevents us from doing evil in heaven? I dont belive anyone is Evil, but everyone can commit evil acts. I think Evil is the product of everyones choices combined. No one person can be blamed for the existence of Evil. But everyone has consequences of doing wrong. And those that do wrong contribute to the growing Evil.
Satan used to be the highest of all angels, Satan, was the closet to God, closer than anyone has been. Satan wanted to takes God place, however that act in itself is not Evil, that is just greedy. And a belief system based on greed, will create a system of both good and evil just like on earth. So God needs to prevent that, by kicking Satan out, because Satan would have unbalanced heaven and created a place for evil. However Satan has been personified as Evil, but Satan is not Evil. All Satan did was make a mistake, and that mistake would have lead to the creation of evil in heaven.
So is Satan evil?
...or is everyone that follows Satan misguided by Satan's perversion of the Truth, and everyone under his influence, contributes to the Growing Evil. Where i think Satan went wrong is simply this:
He did not apologize and see the error of his ways, greed, will never create a perfect harmonious balance. And will never create a paradise. But what i am saying is that, no one is evil. But everyone contributes to it. By being misguided, And everyone contributing to evil, has consequences. Everyone who has contributed will be placed with those contributers. Unless Jesus does save you, but he will only save you. If you do not upset the balance of heaven.
Thats what i think. But we should not teach that to anyone even if the bible says so!!!!!
We should teach everyone how to create heaven on earth, and then worry about getting into heaven later.
P.s sorry for answering my questions...
Kindest Regards,
Simon Peter John Gately
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WafflesFTW
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Re: Is Jesus Good? Is Satan Evil?
Post #4By whose standards are humans imperfect?Simon_Peter wrote: Here are some facts:
We as humans are imperfect
Limited or different?Simon_Peter wrote: We have limited perception
Limited by inquiry or by technology?Simon_Peter wrote: We have limited knowledge
Asking for the meaning of good and evil is very different than applying them to the context of Satan evil and Jesus good.Simon_Peter wrote: What I don’t know is this:
Is Satan, Evil?
Is Jesus, Good?
I need to understand the meaning of ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’. So when I talk about Good and Evil, I understand what it is. Until I know these two things, I will not know if Jesus is Good, or if Satan is bad.
Can satan be completely evil? Is he not a pawn being used in eternal struggle? Without him, could God be seen as good?
Can we say Jesus (as God) is completely good? Does He not allow bad things to happen to those devoted to Him? Does He not allow satan to tempt His creation? Does He not allow satan to exist?
The terms you are asking for absolute meanings to have no absolute meaning. Context plays a large role in defining them and as such, the context can change the circumstances that would make an act that is usually considered good become evil, and vice versa.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
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Simon_Peter
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Post #5
Hey Confused,
Thats amazing, i never thought about it like that. Good and Bad are relative to each other. The worse something is, the better the good one becomes. But in an absolute sense they both could be bad, but just not as bad as each other.
Keep up the clever comments
Regards
Simon
Thats amazing, i never thought about it like that. Good and Bad are relative to each other. The worse something is, the better the good one becomes. But in an absolute sense they both could be bad, but just not as bad as each other.
Keep up the clever comments
Regards
Simon
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Azerate218
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OnceConvinced
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Post #7
So why do you believe that? Why is Satan good and God evil?Azerate218 wrote:In my eyes, good is evil and evil is good
Therefore, Satan = good, and God = evil.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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jimbo111222
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Good and Evil
Post #8Jesus was one of the greatest people of human existence. Although his teachings are not viewed in a way that makes his followers do good things. He taught kindness, compassion, love, acceptance, and faith. These are all thing that everyone should practice.
The devil is a manifestation of evil. He promotes War, disorder, hate, killing, discrimination, fear.
I am not going to tell you witch one is good or evil. I’m just going to ask you one question. Would you rather live in a world ruled by Jesus, or the Devil?
The devil is a manifestation of evil. He promotes War, disorder, hate, killing, discrimination, fear.
I am not going to tell you witch one is good or evil. I’m just going to ask you one question. Would you rather live in a world ruled by Jesus, or the Devil?
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Nameless
Re: Is Jesus Good? Is Satan Evil?
Post #9There is a difference between a 'fact' in your life and understanding, and 'facts' for others.Simon_Peter wrote:Here are some facts:
We as humans are imperfect.
I do not agree with this 'fact', I see all a 'perfect' as is. Every moment...
We have limited perception
Agreed, the very definition of 'perspective' (of which we are all unique examples) demands 'limitation'.
Again, agreed.We have limited knowledge
Beware of committing the 'sin' of vanity/judgement/PRIDE. The very first Judeo/Xtian 'sin' is disobedience and 'stealing' the knowlwdge of Good and Evil for 'self' (growth of vanity/pride).What I don’t know is this:
Is Satan, Evil?
Is Jesus, Good?
I need to understand the meaning of ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’. So when I talk about Good and Evil, I understand what it is. Until I know these two things, I will not know if Jesus is Good, or if Satan is bad
Now you wish to shamelessly fling your 'sin' in God's face by exercising the fruits thereof, committing 'judgement', morality? 'Morality' is the exercise of (Prideful judgement) the sin of attributing the labels of 'good' and 'evil' to people and things.
This is not your place, to 'judge', which is strictly an act of PRIDE/Ego! Sin! You never have enough perspective to 'judge' fairly and riteously!
I recommend bypassing the 'good/evil' vanity completely. "Judge not.."!
'Jesus' as well as 'Satan' are figments of the imagination and are as 'real' as you feel them to be. Their existence is in the 'beliefs' of the believers.
In your cosmology, 'Jesus' would not have been necessary without the 'works of the devil'.
It would be 'satan' responsible for 'jesus' 'arrival' (according to the mythology).
Would you consider that 'evil'?
Post #10
Satan is disobedient to God, and as he was defeated, has determined himself to undermine God at all turns, through us or through himself. Since by Christian definition God is goodness and light, and Satan is the antithesis of this, by definition Satan is darkness and evil. There are other points of view, saying that Satan was actually the one to give to humans the knowledge of good and evil, making us intelligent rather than just blind followers, and that God was manipulative and created us simply to have those to serve him without question. Really, the interpretation of scripture (or just interpretation of the world itself) is up to you - whether you believe Satan to be evil or not.
I think it's pretty certain that Jesus was good. Was he divine? That I don't know for sure. But he helped a lot of people, tried to do away with the corruption in the church, tried to spread enlightenment, and in the end died for our sins (even if you don't believe that his death cleansed us, it's pretty certain that HE did believe that, so he did sacrifice himself for us, though it may not have worked). He preached love, tolerance, good will, and service to others. If he was no higher than human, then he was a moral and righteous human being, and if he was the one true son of God, then (again by Christian definition) he could not be anything but good.
I think it's pretty certain that Jesus was good. Was he divine? That I don't know for sure. But he helped a lot of people, tried to do away with the corruption in the church, tried to spread enlightenment, and in the end died for our sins (even if you don't believe that his death cleansed us, it's pretty certain that HE did believe that, so he did sacrifice himself for us, though it may not have worked). He preached love, tolerance, good will, and service to others. If he was no higher than human, then he was a moral and righteous human being, and if he was the one true son of God, then (again by Christian definition) he could not be anything but good.
