Addressing the society of knuckle draggers

[Vanguard]

OK, it seems both Christian (myself included) and otherwise have had quite a field day for some time when disparaging the Christian fundamentalist community. I have to this day not ever heard any rebuttal from these so-called fundamentalists. How about we have a conversation among fellow Christians to flesh this out?

Questions for debate:

1) Is there a more nuanced stance regards to the fundamentalist community on this board or is it destined to be left on the intellectual scrap heap?

2) Do the fundamentalists on this board find sufficient comradery within the fundamentalist community at large or are there irreconciliable differences?

[Allie]

Okay, so I'll admit that I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but I'd love to be a part of a Christian chat.

If I'm anywhere close to getting what you mean (my fault for not understanding, not yours) I'm thinking that we probably don't have great comradery. I, for one, am just about always paranoid that a Christian might come onto one of my boards (from things that have happened to me, too, I'm not saying this 'just because') and rant and condemn every non-Christian I'm talking to. However, it's always been a relief when a Christian backs me up here--I haven't had the problem of the over-excited crazy Christians on this forum.

So, I'm not really sure. I love it when someone helps me out, but I'm always a bit scared of what other Christians might do, to be honest. Other than that, I'm all for the Christian companions.

And if I'm way off, you can tell me. Hah, I'm really inexperienced at debating and I'm quite young, so I'm not used to all the big words at once.

[Vanguard]

If I'm anywhere close to getting what you mean (my fault for not understanding, not yours) I'm thinking that we probably don't have great comradery. I, for one, am just about always paranoid that a Christian might come onto one of my boards (from things that have happened to me, too, I'm not saying this 'just because') and rant and condemn every non-Christian I'm talking to. However, it's always been a relief when a Christian backs me up here--I haven't had the problem of the over-excited crazy Christians on this forum.

So, I'm not really sure. I love it when someone helps me out, but I'm always a bit scared of what other Christians might do, to be honest. Other than that, I'm all for the Christian companions.

And if I'm way off, you can tell me. Hah, I'm really inexperienced at debating and I'm quite young, so I'm not used to all the big words at once.

Do you consider yourself a fundamentalist Christian? A few definitions taken from http://dictionary.reference.com include:

1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming. (Dictionary.com Unabridged)

1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism. (American Heritage Dictionary)

I imagine I have some elements of a fundamentalist stance in my belief system though I believe currently when referring to fundamentalists on this board or elsewhere most posters mean to identify them as those who; 1) hold the Bible as infallible and as a literal historical record, and/or 2) are intolerant of other religious views that may run contrary to their own.

That being the case I would not be considered fundamentalist as I am not intolerant of opposing views nor do I hold the Bible to be an infallible, literal historical record. The commonality I hold with the fundamentalist camp would include essential agreement over the Atonement, physical resurrection, and Second Coming of Christ.

[Allie]

Well yes, I do fit most of the definition, although I'm a little wary of the infallible Bible thing. I just haven't done enough research on that, but I'm leaning towards thinking the Bible is infallible.

Intolerance only means thinking that there is only one right way, right? Only the Christians will go to heaven?
If that is the case, that's what I believe. 'Intolerance' is such a not-nice word, though.

[Fisherking]

1) Is there a more nuanced stance regards to the fundamentalist community on this board or is it destined to be left on the intellectual scrap heap?

I'm not sure what you are asking here Vanguard.

2) Do the fundamentalists on this board find sufficient comradery within the fundamentalist community at large or are there irreconciliable differences?

I don't think many even know what a fundamentalist is actually. From a non-theists point of view, it appears they visualize someone with an 8th grade education parroting whatever their drunk parents told them to believe about God and the bible(meaning it as an insult). Everyone wants to hate the "fundamentalist", but not everyone is using the same definition for fundamentalism. I created the Christian Fundamentalist usergroup on this forum and specifically defined the fundamentals I (and many others) believe to be the foundation of sound Christian doctrine.

Christian Fundamentalist
Discription--A Christian Fundamentalist affirms:
--Biblical inerrancy(The Bible in its original autographs is entirely true and never false in all it affirms, including issues of doctrine, ethics, and social, physical, or life sciences)
--the divinity of Jesus Christ
--the Virgin Birth
--the belief that Jesus Christ died to redeem humankind(substitutionary atonement)
--the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
--The imminent return of Jesus Christ "

The usergroup "Christianity" is defined as "I'm a believer". I was uncomfortable how broad this definition was and was finding that many of the members in the catagory affirmed very little of what I thought to be the fundamentals of Christianity. In my opinion anyone could be considered "Christian" with this definition (one in particular is a full blown atheist).
Affirming the above doctrine would naturally exclude alot of doctrine that contradicts the above (including various Christian cults are other religions).

I consider myself tolerant of any belief or point of view (even though I think it may be in error), but I will not take tolerance to the extreme of compromising what I believe to be the truth.

[Vanguard]

Intolerance only means thinking that there is only one right way, right? Only the Christians will go to heaven? If that is the case, that's what I believe. 'Intolerance' is such a not-nice word, though.

Good question about "intolerance". I imagine it may have something to do with a fundamentalist's perceived unwillingness to tolerate another's desire to live according to the dictates of his own conscience when those same dictates run contrary to the fundamentalist's views. As an example, can a fundamentalist tolerate the notion of allowing a homosexual union to raise children or will this same fundamentalist try to prevent this - based on God's will alone - from happening through using his political voice?
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1) Is there a more nuanced stance regards to the fundamentalist community on this board or is it destined to be left on the intellectual scrap heap?

I am not sure what you are asking here Vanguard.

Actually, I'm not sure I would have worded the question in quite the same way or whether I would have scrapped it altogether.

2) Do the fundamentalists on this board find sufficient comradery within the fundamentalist community at large or are there irreconciliable differences?

I don't think many even know what a fundamentalist is actually. From a non-theists point of view, it appears they visualize someone with an 8th grade education parroting whatever their drunk parents told them to believe about God and the bible(meaning it as an insult). Everyone wants to hate the "fundamentalist", but not everyone is using the same definition for fundamentalism.

But do you see any differences between say, yourself, and any of the ideals the fundamentalist community at large espouses? Are there elements of the fundamentalist community you find to be counter-productive?

I created the Christian Fundamentalist usergroup on this forum and specifically defined the fundamentals I (and many others) believe to be the foundation of sound Christian doctrine.

Quote:
Christian Fundamentalist
Discription--A Christian Fundamentalist affirms:
--Biblical inerrancy(The Bible in its original autographs is entirely true and never false in all it affirms, including issues of doctrine, ethics, and social, physical, or life sciences)
--the divinity of Jesus Christ
--the Virgin Birth
--the belief that Jesus Christ died to redeem humankind(substitutionary atonement)
--the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
--The imminent return of Jesus Christ "

I am in agreeement with all excepting your first affirmation.

The usergroup "Christianity" is defined as "I'm a believer". I was uncomfortable how broad this definition was and was finding that many of the members in the catagory affirmed very little of what I thought to be the fundamentals of Christianity. In my opinion anyone could be considered "Christian" with this definition (one in particular is a full blown atheist).
Affirming the above doctrine would naturally exclude alot of doctrine that contradicts the above (including various Christian cults are other religions).

I have decided to define Christian as one who believes in the atoning sacrifice of the Savior. In this way, even the full-blown atheist would not be included as a Christian. You should know also that I am a Mormon.

I consider myself tolerant of any belief or point of view (even though I think it may be in error), but I will not take tolerance to the extreme of compromising what I believe to be the truth.

As such, what would be your answer to my question I just now posed to Allie?

[Fisherking]

can a fundamentalist tolerate the notion of allowing a homosexual union to raise children or will this same fundamentalist try to prevent this - based on God's will alone - from happening through using his political voice?

I can tolerate the notion, but would try to prevent the notion from becoming a reality by exercising my political voice.

But do you see any differences between say, yourself, and any of the ideals the fundamentalist community at large espouses? Are there elements of the fundamentalist community you find to be counter-productive?

I would gladly answer the questions if I had a better idea of what fundamentalists you refer to. There are certainly elements in any community that will be counter-productive but It's hard to answer a general question with a specific answer

You should know also that I am a Mormon.

You should know that I consider Mormonism to be a Christian cult, with all due respect

[Vanguard]

can a fundamentalist tolerate the notion of allowing a homosexual union to raise children or will this same fundamentalist try to prevent this - based on God's will alone - from happening through using his political voice?

I can tolerate the notion, but would try to prevent the notion from becoming a reality by exercising my political voice.

I would imagine that at some point I too might seek to prevent other groups from being able to make they very same choices I myself have always been able to make (i.e., adopting children, foster care, and the like). The question is why I would seek to prevent some groups from doing such. Do I have solid scientific evidence against such arrangements or does it amount to my understanding of what my God would desire?

But do you see any differences between say, yourself, and any of the ideals the fundamentalist community at large espouses? Are there elements of the fundamentalist community you find to be counter-productive?

I would gladly answer the questions if I had a better idea of what fundamentalists you refer to. There are certainly elements in any community that will be counter-productive but It's hard to answer a general question with a specific answer

If you were to ask me what I thought about fans who follow professional football I would say by and large they have a tendency to be a bit aggressive and loud though I certainly couldn't answer for all of them. In that light, does any particular quality come to mind when you think of the fundamentalist community at large that you find to be counter-productive?

You should know also that I am a Mormon.

You should know that I consider Mormonism to be a Christian cult, with all due respect

No problem - at least for now.

[Allie]

But do you see any differences between say, yourself, and any of the ideals the fundamentalist community at large espouses? Are there elements of the fundamentalist community you find to be counter-productive?

This was the question you wanted me to answer, right?
I can't really think of anything, to be honest. Not the Biblical Fundamentalists, anyways. Are you thinking of anything?

[Vanguard]

But do you see any differences between say, yourself, and any of the ideals the fundamentalist community at large espouses? Are there elements of the fundamentalist community you find to be counter-productive?

This was the question you wanted me to answer, right?
I can't really think of anything, to be honest. Not the Biblical Fundamentalists, anyways. Are you thinking of anything?

I imagine anything I am thinking of would revolve around this notion of intolerance - intolerance as characterized by 1) an unwillingness to accept the possibility that those rejecting Christ's message in this life may still have the same chance to retain the blessings of eternal life with Him, and 2) the insistance in keeping many (if not all?) Biblical beliefs alive and well in the public forum via the exertion of political influence.

Have I characterized the fundamentalist stance accurately? I wonder if there has been any unecessary overlap with the label evangelical? Are there any important differences?