quran and hadith together form islam

[umair]

i will not go into much depth, but just pose a question on the face of it.

if the only goal of prophet muhammed(saw), would have been to deliver the quran,
then allah (swt), could have even appointed an angel for this task.

but muhammed (saw), was here to teach us how to lead the best life, and ofcourse he taught us accordingly with what allah(swt) had made him to do.
and we should never forget that allah(swt), sent a man instead of an angel so that we may not excuse, for what he could do.

believe me, you cannot follow the quran until you know the right meaning of it,and the right way to enable an act, which we get to know from the hadith and the sunnah.
and complimentarily, you cannot follow a hadith or suunah,until you add the verses of the quran to it.

any doubts , please address.

[Bigmo]

25.33. And no question do they bring to thee but We reveal to thee the truth and the best explanation (thereof).

17.89. And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse except with ingratitude!

39.27. We have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition

16.89. One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims

6.114. Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

12.111. There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.

17.12. We have made the Night and the Day as two Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: all things have We explained in detail.

44.2-3 By the Book that makes things clear;- We sent it down during a Blessed Night: for We wish to warn,

6.38. There is not an animal on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but are communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.

The Koran is fully dteailed, an exposition of all things, and clarified in detail and nothing has been omited.

The prophet was:

10.15. But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say: "Bring us a reading other than this, or change this," Say: "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it: I follow naught but what is revealed unto me: if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day."

well , ofcourse even i do believe that the quran is complete as a book of guidance,

but just answer a simple question,
if only quran is given to you then how will you offer the salat ?

well this is where the duty of the prophet began, ie he told us the right method of offering the salat.(ofcourse by the will and knowledge , given to him by allah(swt))

and this is well applied to all the other acts as well.


remember if quran is a word of allah(swt) delivered by the prophet , then even the hadith were delivered from that same mouth of the most respectable messenger of allah(swt),
and both were by the will and bounty of allah(swt).


so as the quran went on laying the guiding line, the prophet taught us its meaning and implementation.

THE RITUAL PRAYER (NAMAAZ) AND MORE Ardeshir Spencer

I am a Zoroasrtrian. Dr. Shabbir's research is quite right. Your NAMAAZ was stolen from Zoroastrianism by your Parsi Imams from Persia.

It would be appropriate if we can discuss the startling similarities between some practices of Islam and Zoroastrianism. These parallels go beyond the co-incindental normal ones. I will endeavour to enumerate a few here:

01. Requirements of prayers: Islam enjoins its followers to pray 5 times a day and is called by the Muezzin to his prayers.These prayers are at i) Dawn ii) Noon iii) Afternoon iv) Sunset v) Night.
Zoroastrianism also enjoins prayers 5 times a day called "Geh". The devotee is summoned by the ringing of a bell in the AtashBehram / Agiary. These prayers are also at the same time as in Islam and their respective names are:

Time: Islamic/ Zorastrianism
Dawn: Fajar/ Havaan
Noon: Zohar/ Rapithwan
Afternoon: Asr/ Uziren
Evening: Mazreem or Maghrib/ Aiwisuthrem
Night time: Isha or Ishan/ Ushaen.

02. Pre-requisites of Prayer: On entering the mosque and prior to commencing prayers a Muslim has to cover his head and wash his face and limbs. Similarly, a Zoroastrian on entering the Agiary will cover his head, wash his face and limbs and perform the Padyaab Kusti before commencing his prayers.

03. The Prayers: Prayers in Islam are in Arabic only, though
translations/transliterations are available. The liturgy has to be conducted in Arabic only. In Zoroastrianism too, prayers have to be recited in Avesta or in Pazend only. In fact in Aveatan prayers Pazend portions have to be recited in an undertone so as not to break the seamless flow of Avestan Manthravani.

04. Sanctum Sanctorum and its veneration: The holiest spot in a Mosque is the wall facing Mecca and is called the Qiblah. In the Atashbehram/Agiary the room where the Atash Padshah is enthroned is also called the Keblaah. A Muslim will perform the Sajdah in front of the Qiblah and so also will the Zoroastrian perform the Sezdah before his Keblaah. Both involve kneeling down and touching the forehead to the ground.

05. A Holy Month: In Islam Ramzan is the holy month in which all Muslims are required to fast in the day and only break their fast after sunset. In Zoroastrianism the month of Bahman has similiar connotations wherein all are requested to particularly abstain from flesh. Perhaps in the age of the Sassanian dynasty the month of Bahman was observed as Ramzan is now.

06. Ascent into Heaven: The hagiography of Islam assures us that Prophet Mohammad ascended to heaven from Jerusalem on the mythical beast Burrrak. He crossed the 7 spheres, exchanged greetings with the patriarchs and beheld the glory of God.

The Dinkard tells us that at the entreaties of Asho Zarthustra Bahman Ameshaspand transcendentally elevated his consciousness to the realm of heaven wherein Asho Zarthustra looked at the reflugent majesty of God. A similiar journey was attributed to the virtuous Ardaviraf who visited hell, purgatory and heaven during his spiritual journey.
The above similarities are obvious. A more careful research would reveal more parallels. However even these points are too close to be dismissed as mere coincidences. This means Zoroastrianism has had an enormous impact on Islam which is not acknowledged. Everyone agrees Islam owes a lot to Judaism and Christianity but I feel that the scholars of Islam borrowed very heavily from Iran and this can be perhaps attributed to that shadowy figure of Dastur Dinyar (Salman Farsi). This debt is so impressive that it had to be consistently downgraded and later denied. After all if Islam is supposedly directly inspired by God it cannot be seen to be acknowledging any debt to an older faith, specially the faith of a nation which Islam has defeated. This may perhaps explain the devotion of your Persian Imams to my Faith.
07. Chinvat Bridge (The SIRAAT BRIDGE): According to ancient Persian myth, when a person dies, the soul remains by the body for three days. On the fourth, it travels to Chinvat Bridge (the Bridge of the Separator, also call
Al-Sirat), accompanied by gods of protection. The bridge is "finer than a hair and sharper than a sword" and spans a deep chasm teeming with monsters. On the other side of the bridge is the gateway to paradise.

08. Hell: Demons guard the foot of the bridge and argue with the gods over the soul's fate. The actions of the dead person, both good and bad, are weighed, and the soul is either allowed to cross or denied access to the bridge. Spirits whose evil outweighs their good fall into the demon-infested pit to face eternal torment. In this abyss of the damned, each soul is tortured by a GHOUL that represents its sins in life. Once fallen into the gulf, no soul can escape the horrors of hell through its own power.

Zoroaster, a sixth century BC religious leader, had warned his followers of this obstacle to heaven but he promised to lead his flock safely across. The ancient manuscript Gathas (Songs of Zoroaster) explains that the Bridge of the Separator "becomes narrow for the wicked," whereas the holy can easily pass unharmed. (In Gathas, the fair god Rashnu is named as the judge who helps determine who is worthy of salvation and who must be damned.) All infidels (non-believers) fall into hell, which the prophet says has been created especially for the "followers of the lie."
The legends are sketchy but assert that Chinvat Bridge is located somewhere in the far north. It is a place of filth where the damned endure physical tortures and spiritual agony. Souls who are unsuccessful in crossing the Chinvat Bridge suffer these torments until AHRAMAN, the evil god of ZOROASTRIANISM, is destroyed by the good god Orzmahd during the LAST JUDGMENT. As this time, lost spirits are restored to the truth since "the lie" has been eradicated, or they face final ANNIHILATION.

Notice the similarity? So you guys are actually pagan stone and sun worshippers, correct? But your Koran is pure and free from plagiarism.
DUROOD VS

[umair]

well that was a cool one!!!!!!!!!!!!

one thing that flashed my mind was a news which i recently read on the net,
that a china mobile company accusing apple to have stolen their concept of iphone.


well although i am not at all interested in this piece of story, but still i could locate certain misconception that have been used in this, which people normally associate with islam, i would like to elaborate them a bit:

first that the muslims bow before a stone(kaaba) just as the idolaters do.

this is amongst the most popular misconception,

it should be clearly bore in mind that we use the kaaba just as a piece of direction , so that the muslims all over the world are united over the direction in which they should offer their prayers (as the quran tells us)

the simplest example is that we can even stand over the kaaba , to offer our prayers to allah(swt), can any idolator stand over his idol?


the next misconception that i could locate was that some people associate the mihrab as a more respectable area of the mosque , which is wrong,
because the mihrab apart from being a direction teller has no other importance.

A mihrab (Arabic: محراب pl. محاريب) is just a niche in the wall of a mosque that indicates the qibla, that is, the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca and hence the direction that Muslims should face when praying.

these are some points which i found important to highlight .

[Bigmo]

well that was a cool one!!!!!!!!!!!!

one thing that flashed my mind was a news which i recently read on the net,
that a china mobile company accusing apple to have stolen their concept of iphone.


well although i am not at all interested in this piece of story, but still i could locate certain misconception that have been used in this, which people normally associate with islam, i would like to elaborate them a bit:

first that the muslims bow before a stone(kaaba) just as the idolaters do.

this is amongst the most popular misconception,

it should be clearly bore in mind that we use the kaaba just as a piece of direction , so that the muslims all over the world are united over the direction in which they should offer their prayers (as the quran tells us)

the simplest example is that we can even stand over the kaaba , to offer our prayers to allah(swt), can any idolator stand over his idol?


the next misconception that i could locate was that some people associate the mihrab as a more respectable area of the mosque , which is wrong,
because the mihrab apart from being a direction teller has no other importance.

A mihrab (Arabic: محراب pl. محاريب) is just a niche in the wall of a mosque that indicates the qibla, that is, the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca and hence the direction that Muslims should face when praying.

these are some points which i found important to highlight .

You might want to read this:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13293.0

[umair]

bigmo
You might want to read this:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13293.0

plz can you specify what do you want me to read from this long thread

[Truth_Teller]

i will not go into much depth, but just pose a question on the face of it.

if the only goal of prophet muhammed(saw), would have been to deliver the quran,
then allah (swt), could have even appointed an angel for this task.

Had Allah appointed an Angel to do all this would there be any non-believer anymore? Had an Angel appeared before them wouldn´t they all have believed him? Allah appointed Muhammad to deliver the message and it was upto us to believe or not. Surely, there were signs for those who accepted and believed.

but muhammed (saw), was here to teach us how to lead the best life, and ofcourse he taught us accordingly with what allah(swt) had made him to do.
and we should never forget that allah(swt), sent a man instead of an angel so that we may not excuse, for what he could do.

believe me, you cannot follow the quran until you know the right meaning of it,and the right way to enable an act, which we get to know from the hadith and the sunnah.
and complimentarily, you cannot follow a hadith or suunah,until you add the verses of the quran to it.

any doubts , please address.

I fully believe in what you say and I agree with it. But the reason why I would take Qur´an as our first and main source of knowledge is only for the fact that there are some fabricated Ahadith which are falsely attributed to The Noble Man.

Now got my point? Otherwise, there is none who can put aside The Hadith as it does play an important part as well.

[umair]

i will not go into much depth, but just pose a question on the face of it.

if the only goal of prophet muhammed(saw), would have been to deliver the quran,
then allah (swt), could have even appointed an angel for this task.

Had Allah appointed an Angel to do all this would there be any non-believer anymore? Had an Angel appeared before them wouldn´t they all have believed him? Allah appointed Muhammad to deliver the message and it was upto us to believe or not. Surely, there were signs for those who accepted and believed.

but muhammed (saw), was here to teach us how to lead the best life, and ofcourse he taught us accordingly with what allah(swt) had made him to do.
and we should never forget that allah(swt), sent a man instead of an angel so that we may not excuse, for what he could do.

believe me, you cannot follow the quran until you know the right meaning of it,and the right way to enable an act, which we get to know from the hadith and the sunnah.
and complimentarily, you cannot follow a hadith or suunah,until you add the verses of the quran to it.

any doubts , please address.

I fully believe in what you say and I agree with it. But the reason why I would take Qur´an as our first and main source of knowledge is only for the fact that there are some fabricated Ahadith which are falsely attributed to The Noble Man.

Now got my point? Otherwise, there is none who can put aside The Hadith as it does play an important part as well.

thanks

[Ilias Ahmad]

Hey Truth-Teller, we are still awaiting your response on the Qadiani thread. I hope you haven't tried to slip out of the debate.

[Truth_Teller]

Hey Truth-Teller, we are still awaiting your response on the Qadiani thread. I hope you haven't tried to slip out of the debate.

Been busy in recent days. As soon as I got time I will.......