So why are you an athiest?

[Allie]

I have always wondered at people's stories, and I would like to hear yours. What would make a person so angry, sorrowful, or unconvinced as to not believe in God?

I come to you in the most humble of circumstances, I am still very young. I probably have less knowledge of the Bible than most people on this site do, but I would still like to contribute to these interesting conversations; Won't you please tell me your story?

[Vanguard]

IMO, you seem to imply that non-belief runs against what should be the natural order of one's life experience. You know, it's kind of like saying - "What would make him want to steal from that homeless man?" It seems more appropriate to ask what is it that makes a believer convinced there is a God. I for one am not suprrised in the least there are many (a majority?) who do not profess a belief in the supernatural. I don't really know that anything necessarily made them feel this way.

I'll try to answer what you're asking me, but I'm not sure I'm understanding the question.

I said it as if it is normal to know about God because the people on this site are here to debate Him.

Actually, they are here to debate your belief in Him. An atheist does not recognize the existence of a "Him". I'm not sure why you think it is "normal" to know about God?

They should know about God, and have a reason (or multiple reasons) as to why they do or don't believe in Him. I am not extremely surprised at people not choosing to believe in God (most of the people who live around me are not Christians) but I do wonder why people decide not to come to God, which is why I made this board.

An atheist will argue there is no God to come to. Why would you then wonder why they resist Him?

Do you really think that people are Atheists 'just because'? I don't know, perhaps they are--but from what I've seen from friends and family, people usually do want to believe in something, they just don't know what to believe in.

Does that belief in something have to include a belief in the supernatural? For that matter, why can't an atheist simply be content with not believing in anything?

Therefore, I think people who call themselves Atheists almost always have a reason for being an Atheist.

Again, the reason may well be there is no compelling evidence to convince them there is a God. Do you believe that to be possible?

I am not simply trying to be difficult for it's own sake. These IMO are legitimate questions to challenge you on. Kuddos to you though for illiciting a few warm responses from the "non-supernaturalist" crowd. Perhaps this thread will continue to bear fruits.

[Allie]

We have a debate thread for that discussion. Why not jump in and let us know what you think?

Oh, thank you for the encouragement! I'm not sure if I'm ready to stand up to a full on debate yet, however--I feel very unprepared. I've really never joined any kind of debate forum or class before, so I'm still testing out the waters, if you get my drift.

Thank you for sharing. Really. It takes a lot to expose something as personal as why you believe on an internet forum established for debate. I hope that you can learn to examine thoroughly what you believe in and why you believe it.

Well thank you, very much. I'm honored that you took the time to respond, and to compliment you back, I will say that your arguments are all very well thought out.

I consider myself an agnostic, not an atheist, but I think one of the main errors Christians make is if they see unbelief as a choice and/or they think that something bad must have happened to make us not want to believe.

I was thinking that not believing was a choice made by the people on this forum, for sure, but in general, I don't think not believing is always a choice. Some of my friends, for example, simply haven't thought about it much.

I'm an ex-Christian and no doubt you can read my member spotlight to see how I got where I am today. If you have any questions, I'm also happy to answer them. For me I had great experiences in the church, was always respected and had some great relationships with other Christians, leaders included. I came to certain conclusions nearer the end of my Christian walk, which to me were inescapable and as much as I wanted to keep believing, I just couldn't. Nothing terrible happened to make me reject Christ.

Sure there has been heartbreak and frustration. But that can't be directed at God, because I can't even be sure he exists. I can't even be angry at my parents who indoctronated me from birth. They were only doing what they thought God expected them to do. I tend to blame myself more than anything for just accepting what I was taught as a child, for taking so long to start thinking for myself and for saying "Goddidit" everytime I learnt or experienced something wonderful.

I will most definitely read your spotlight, it sounds like a very interesting story. (I'm being truthful too, don't get me wrong!)

Among other things, but I see how religion divides more folks than it brings together, and to me this is profound proof, though maybe not 'official debate quality proof'. I'm the rare atheist who wants to believe in a God, but I see what the human race has done to religion, and I realize it's just a human construct.

Though I come as an atheist, and argue more often against religion, I find some of the more spiritual stuff written here is more accessible to my senses. I joined these forums as a way to explore my spiritual side if you will, but I can't really get a good grip on how to explain it. As people mature into middle age they often have these kind of events. After the youthful energy and 'lust for life' wane, then we often start to ponder some of the deeper issues of life, and humanity. This often leads folks along a spiritual/religious path. I know this cause I used to raise more cane than a rum factory, and now I find myself looking into these issues. It happens the other way with some lifelong theists, but you'll have to ask them on that one.

I think I understand. I wish I was the type of person who knew enough to convince you that God was there, but unfortunately, I am not as knowledgeable as I would like to be. If you really are looking for God, perhaps I could point you to a sermon I got off iTunes that I really liked. It was by Ben Stuart from Breakaway Ministries. It is titled 'How Can you Prove God?' and I enjoyed it a lot. Ben Stuart is very funny and very real at the same time.

However, I don't mean to be pushy! Oh, and thank you very much for sharing your story with me, it means a lot.

Actually, they are here to debate your belief in Him. An atheist does not recognize the existence of a "Him". I'm not sure why you think it is "normal" to know about God?

Right, I'm sorry, I worded that wrong. They are here to debate my belief. I think it is normal on this website to know about God, is what I was meaning(because of reasons I already listed). Not in general.

An atheist will argue there is no God to come to. Why would you then wonder why they resist Him?

Hmm. I guess it is my perspective, then, that blinds me. I can't help but wonder at that, if they knew the same things I knew. I came here assuming they knew more than me, and so that is why I wondered. I don't know, what's the right answer to that question?

Does that belief in something have to include a belief in the supernatural? For that matter, why can't an atheist simply be content with not believing in anything?

No, the belief does not have to be in the supernatural. I have a friend who is content with being Agnostic. I just think people want to believe something, whether it has to do with believing in a god or not.

Again, the reason may well be there is no compelling evidence to convince them there is a God. Do you believe that to be possible?

Well, a different point of view means a lot. I think someone could think (and people do think) there is a lack of evidence to believe in a god, but I personally do not believe there is any lack of evidence. Is that what you were asking?

I am not simply trying to be difficult for it's own sake. These IMO are legitimate questions to challenge you on. Kuddos to you though for illiciting a few warm responses from the "non-supernaturalist" crowd. Perhaps this thread will continue to bear fruits.

Hah, it's okay with me if you are difficult. If I ever want to be a good debater, I have to stand up to questions, and I understand that. And thank you for the kudos(it makes me feel good); to God be the glory.

[bernee51]

I was thinking that not believing was a choice made by the people on this forum, for sure, but in general, I don't think not believing is always a choice. Some of my friends, for example, simply haven't thought about it much.

It was for me not so much a choice but more the only conclusion I could come to.

I think I understand. I wish I was the type of person who knew enough to convince you that God was there,...

Why?

... but unfortunately, I am not as knowledgeable as I would like to be. If you really are looking for God, perhaps I could point you to a sermon I got off iTunes that I really liked. It was by Ben Stuart from Breakaway Ministries. It is titled 'How Can you Prove God?' and I enjoyed it a lot. Ben Stuart is very funny and very real at the same time.

I have looked at 'Breakaway' - it seems more like 'pop culture' than anything else.

Actually, they are here to debate your belief in Him. An atheist does not recognize the existence of a "Him". I'm not sure why you think it is "normal" to know about God?

Right, I'm sorry, I worded that wrong. They are here to debate my belief. I think it is normal on this website to know about God, is what I was meaning(because of reasons I already listed). Not in general.

An atheist will argue there is no God to come to. Why would you then wonder why they resist Him?

Hmm. I guess it is my perspective, then, that blinds me. I can't help but wonder at that, if they knew the same things I knew. I came here assuming they knew more than me, and so that is why I wondered. I don't know, what's the right answer to that question?

Does that belief in something have to include a belief in the supernatural? For that matter, why can't an atheist simply be content with not believing in anything?

No, the belief does not have to be in the supernatural. I have a friend who is content with being Agnostic. I just think people want to believe something, whether it has to do with believing in a god or not.

Again, the reason may well be there is no compelling evidence to convince them there is a God. Do you believe that to be possible?

Well, a different point of view means a lot. I think someone could think (and people do think) there is a lack of evidence to believe in a god, but I personally do not believe there is any lack of evidence. Is that what you were asking?

I am not simply trying to be difficult for it's own sake. These IMO are legitimate questions to challenge you on. Kuddos to you though for illiciting a few warm responses from the "non-supernaturalist" crowd. Perhaps this thread will continue to bear fruits.

Hah, it's okay with me if you are difficult. If I ever want to be a good debater, I have to stand up to questions, and I understand that. And thank you for the kudos(it makes me feel good); to God be the glory.[/quote]

[Zzyzx]

.

I'm not sure if I'm ready to stand up to a full on debate yet, however--I feel very unprepared. I've really never joined any kind of debate forum or class before, so I'm still testing out the waters, if you get my drift.

Allie,

Welcome to the forum. You present yourself as intelligent, articulate, considerate, realistic and as a thinking person. Are you sure you are a Theist? (Just kidding, just kidding). Being serious, your contributions to discussions / debates can be very meaningful.

Two major errors to avoid, ones that destroy credibility of many Theist debaters, are:

1) Making claims that cannot be supported with reasoning based upon evidence from the real world (Non-Theists do not accept scriptural quotations or religious dogma as “proof� or “explanations� that involve “goddidit�)

2) Taking the position that others must “prove me wrong�. An analytical or objective person realizes that one does NOT support a position by demanding to be accepted unless proved wrong (or any harebrained claim MUST be accepted unless and until proved wrong). In debate those who make a claim are ethically expected to support the claim if challenged – or to withdraw the claim.

[Vanguard]

An atheist will argue there is no God to come to. Why would you then wonder why they resist Him?

Hmm. I guess it is my perspective, then, that blinds me. I can't help but wonder at that, if they knew the same things I knew. I came here assuming they knew more than me, and so that is why I wondered. I don't know, what's the right answer to that question?

It remains to be seen whether you are any more blind than the rest of us. You claim that if others knew of what you know things would be different. How are the others suppose to know of these things?

Again, the reason may well be there is no compelling evidence to convince them there is a God. Do you believe that to be possible?

Well, a different point of view means a lot. I think someone could think (and people do think) there is a lack of evidence to believe in a god, but I personally do not believe there is any lack of evidence. Is that what you were asking?

Typically, when we speak of evidence we mean to say it is evidence readily apparent to all though you may hold on to what you consider to be your own personal evidence - I know I do.

When you speak of your own "evidences" do you hope that those who have no evidence will believe what you claim?

I am not simply trying to be difficult for it's own sake. These IMO are legitimate questions to challenge you on. Kuddos to you though for illiciting a few warm responses from the "non-supernaturalist" crowd. Perhaps this thread will continue to bear fruits.

Hah, it's okay with me if you are difficult. If I ever want to be a good debater, I have to stand up to questions, and I understand that. And thank you for the kudos(it makes me feel good); to God be the glory.

Well, you're off to a reasonably good start I suppose though I am not necessarily any standard to base your own performance off of. As you continue (should you continue) make sure to remain as critically-minded as you can muster. It will assist you in the end. As you can see you are already being put to the test. Endure well.

[Fallibleone]

Hi, Allie. Welcome indeed. I'm an atheist due to lack of evidence, despite a lengthy search on my part, to support the existence of God. God belief to me is not natural or normal, since I came from a background of non-belief.

By the way, please don't feel that you are not up to debating. Go for it!

[Allie]

Allie,

Welcome to the forum. You present yourself as intelligent, articulate, considerate, realistic and as a thinking person. Are you sure you are a Theist? (Just kidding, just kidding). Being serious, your contributions to discussions / debates can be very meaningful.

Two major errors to avoid, ones that destroy credibility of many Theist debaters, are:

1) Making claims that cannot be supported with reasoning based upon evidence from the real world (Non-Theists do not accept scriptural quotations or religious dogma as “proof� or “explanations� that involve “goddidit�)

2) Taking the position that others must “prove me wrong�. An analytical or objective person realizes that one does NOT support a position by demanding to be accepted unless proved wrong (or any harebrained claim MUST be accepted unless and until proved wrong). In debate those who make a claim are ethically expected to support the claim if challenged – or to withdraw the claim.

Well thank you, very much! I am honored to have your good opinion. And thank you for the advice, it's helpful, since I'm new and all. You are very kind. I will try my best to follow the ethics of debate.

It remains to be seen whether you are any more blind than the rest of us. You claim that if others knew of what you know things would be different. How are the others suppose to know of these things?

Others could not know all of these things unless they have lived my life, which I accept to be impossible. Too bad, too bad.

Typically, when we speak of evidence we mean to say it is evidence readily apparent to all though you may hold on to what you consider to be your own personal evidence - I know I do.

When you speak of your own "evidences" do you hope that those who have no evidence will believe what you claim?

I would hope they would take my 'evidence' into account, but I would not expect them to accept it.

Well, you're off to a reasonably good start I suppose though I am not necessarily any standard to base your own performance off of. Wink As you continue (should you continue) make sure to remain as critically-minded as you can muster. It will assist you in the end. As you can see you are already being put to the test. Endure well. Angel

Thank you very much, and thanks for the advice! All of you are being so very kind.

Hi, Allie. Welcome indeed. I'm an atheist due to lack of evidence, despite a lengthy search on my part, to support the existence of God. God belief to me is not natural or normal, since I came from a background of non-belief.

By the way, please don't feel that you are not up to debating. Go for it!

Okay, thank you. Lack of evidence seems to be a big part of what people who don't believe in God are talking about. Oh, and thank you for the encouragement, I really do appreciate it.


So can I ask the Agnostics/Atheists here (just because I am inexperienced, forgive me) who do you think Jesus was?
I might be mistaken, but there was enough evidence to prove He was there, right?

[Goat]

So can I ask the Agnostics/Atheists here (just because I am inexperienced, forgive me) who do you think Jesus was?
I might be mistaken, but there was enough evidence to prove He was there, right?

No, there isn't actually. There is no non-church mention of Jesus at all within 40 years of his life. (probably more like 80). The church references are often contradictory to each other.

I suspect that the figure of Jesus as described in the Gospels is the amalgamation of several people, plus some mystical stories that were exaggerated to be 'miraculous'

[JoeyKnothead]

Just want to let you know Ms. Allie, the folks here who don't agree with you don't hate you, or wish you harm, or anything like that. Most of us feel as strongly about our positions as you do yours. If I may speak for atheists (and most would prefer I don't) we accept values like morality, and being honest, and being kind to one another. Its just that we don't feel it necessary to find these values in a god or what have you.

We will fervently defend our positions, and we expect you to do the same. But in the end, what is most valued, and most important, is ain't that joeyknuccione a fine human being

[McCulloch]

Lack of evidence seems to be a big part of what people who don't believe in God are talking about.

It is good that you understand that at the outset. Isn't lack of evidence why you do not believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Superman, Spiderman, Odin, Zeus, ... ?

So can I ask the Agnostics/Atheists here (just because I am inexperienced, forgive me) who do you think Jesus was?
I might be mistaken, but there was enough evidence to prove He was there, right?

Unlike some atheists you will run into here, I remain agnostic regarding the existence of an historical Jesus. I have looked at the evidence and there really is not convincing evidence as far as I can see to say with certainty that Jesus did or did not exist.

The early first century was a turbulent period of time for the Palestinian district. There was religious turmoil, open rebellion, harsh tyrannical repression. There were quite a number of mysterious religious leaders preaching all kinds of messages. Jesus may have been one of them. Or Jesus may have been a few of them. Or may be he was invented from whole cloth. Clearly by the late first century, there was a movement of believers who claimed to be following a resurrected Christ who may or may not have been human.