Twobits -Vs- Upall

[upallnite]

This Friday nights main event:

Did a world wide flood caused by God actually occurre as stated in the Bible(KJV).

In one corner we have Twobitsmedia in blue trunks and white crosses. His soul weighs in at a perfect 0lbs and has a WiFi reach of 300 yards. You have seen him fight his way up from the bottom and watched every crushing verbal blow.

In the other corner we have... PSST, Kid. Whats your name?...Upallnite wearing red and blue tights. His soul weighs in at...What? Everybody has a soul!...unknown lbs.

This fight is for 9 rounds or KO.

Comments Please!

[Zzyzx]

.
The ongoing flood debate resembles a gunfight in which one participant arrived with only a knife – the “knife” representing a single book and no supporting evidence.

The only way a knife is likely to prevail in a gunfight is by subterfuge.

Even a very talented “swordsman” (debater) cannot conceal the idiocy of attempting to defend a position for which there is no evidence. A “swordsman” (debater) of limited ability merely looks foolish flailing about and slashing the air in an attempt to conceal the absence of information and ability.

Examples from the ongoing Head to Head debate http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... php?t=7847 post#8 (with comments added by Zzyzx)

Did God tell you that the flood actually happened? Are there any other tools you have used to come to the conclusion that the flood actually occurred?

God's word has remained true to his character. I have no reason to believe there is a contradiction.

Note the complete lack of response to the question “are there any other tools?”

I gave an example to demonstrate how important looking in the correct time frame is to finding evidence of an event. Do you agree that looking in the correct time frame is important to finding evidence of and event?

What is the evidence of an event that is being described as a miracle? Don't forget that word. That is important.

This acknowledges that evidence cannot be provided to substantiate “a miracle”.

If this excuse is accepted, ANY claim of a “miracle” performed by ANY “god” or by any person can be made with no need for verification.

Please explain why the rate of water loss varied at a rate that has never been seen before.

God created this flood.

Can this be verified? It is a claim in a story book. Is there any other indication that any god caused any flood?

Then what are we debating?

We are debating if the flood actually happened.

If the flood happened caused by God as stated

Whether “caused by god” or a natural event, a flood does not occur without producing effects (unless it is mythical).

It's history. If you can figure out how to go back in time........However, what kind of evidence do miracles leave behind? If you have an answer maybe I can find something.

Excusing lack of evidence of claimed “miracles” again.

If the flood killed nearly all animals and plants on the planet then we should see some evidence of it.

And your benchmark for this is what? Has that been the case with all wordwide floods started and ended by God?

Excusing lack of evidence.

If water covered the entire planet then we should see evidence of it in the fields of both geology and cosmology.
I can come up with many more if statements but do not want to create a straw man of what your position actually is.

You already have. I am NOT...and I repeat NOT..arguing that a wordwide flood of any natural catclysmic proportion occurred. There is clearly no scientific evidence or data to back up such an event.

If it is acknowledged that there is no evidence to substantiate the occurrence of a worldwide flood by natural means, what evidence indicates the occurrence of a worldwide flood “caused by god”?

It is worthwhile to note that magical things happen in myths, and legends, and fables, and fiction. No instance of magic or miracle (divine variety) has been shown to have occurred in real life (though many claim “miracles” and magic are real).

It killed a generation, save for Noah and his family. That was the goal and affect.

A worldwide flood, caused by an angry god, according to the tale, killed ALL generations everywhere on the planet save eight people. That represents genocide on global scale – NOT simply “killed a generation” (though that itself would be reprehensible in the extreme).

Please provide evidence that an entire generation was killed on the entire planet at one time.

The generation has no record. It was destroyed. And even if they hadn't what kind of records did they keep?

Again an excuse for why there is no evidence to support one’s claim.

I have read the Bible in many forms. If “read it again” is all you are offering then this is not a debate.

Twobits responded by quoting a large block of scripture with no interpretation or explanation.

We agreed I would use the text as it is written, and then when I do, you cry foul.

Classic dodge.

I answered them clearly and concise. By elaborating I might be adding to the text, which we agreed I would use.

“it happened when it happened” is not clear or concise.

It is very clear according to the text that it happened when it "came to pass."

Typical dodge. It is reasonable in debate to ask when the event being debated was supposed to have occurred. Lack of an answer is indication of lack of evidence.

Do you not use tools other than the Bible to decide if what the Bible states is accurate?

Like what? Another Bible? A divining rod?

This is an outright admission that the biblical accounts cannot be verified except by the tales themselves. That is known as circular “reasoning”.

What time frame did it occur? I don't know. The record says when "it came to pass." The date is irrelevant to the text.

The date may be irrelevant to the text but it is NOT irrelevant to real events and to real debate.


IF the biblical flood occurred it was “magical” (or “a miracle”).

1. It defied everything we know about nature
2. Immense amounts of water magically appeared and disappeared on command
3. No one knows when the flood occurred or how long it lasted
4. It killed all human and animals not aboard the ark – but did not kill plants
5. Animals magically appeared at the ark then went back to their habitats afterward

6. AND, the worldwide flood left no evidence that it had occurred.

There is only ONE indication of a worldwide flood – a story in a book that claims that “goddidit” because he was angry.

There IS a reasonable explanation for the flood -- that the story is a myth.

[upallnite]

The repeated red herrings got old quick. I expected them and added not answered beside the questions and tried to keep the red herrings in groups of what question they were a response to.

Question for the readers:
From your point of view have I made resonable attempts to have a fair and civil debate?

[Zzyzx]

The repeated red herrings got old quick. I expected them and added not answered beside the questions and tried to keep the red herrings in groups of what question they were a response to.

Question for the readers:
From your point of view have I made resonable attempts to have a fair and civil debate?

YES YOU HAVE

I call upon Twobitsmedia to debate honestly, fairly and openly -- to answer questions and to substantiate any claims made OR to concede the debate.

In fact, Twobitsmeida HAS conceded the debate. See the bolded section below.

If the flood killed nearly all animals and plants on the planet then we should see some evidence of it.

And your benchmark for this is what? Has that been the case with all wordwide floods started and ended by God?

You are the one making the claim that a world wide flood killed nearly all plants and animals on the planet. I am the one asking for evidence. If you have other floods you would like to reference than do so. Otherwise this is just another attempt at trickery.

You already have. I am NOT...and I repeat NOT..arguing that a wordwide flood of any natural catclysmic proportion occurred. There is clearly no scientific evidence or data to back up such an event.

Then what is your reasoning for believing it actually happened? Do you believe the flood happened because you believe it happened?

Please provide evidence that an entire generation was killed on the entire planet at one time.

The generation has no record. It was destroyed. And even if they hadn't what kind of records did they keep?

What generation are you referring to. If you do not know when the event happened then you could not know if any records were destroyed. I think your refusal to submit a date is a form of trickery.

[catholic crusader]

It can't really happen and not happen?