Optimism and Pessimism...

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bigmrpig
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Optimism and Pessimism...

Post #1

Post by bigmrpig »

Now, for the sake of this discussion, I'm talking about modest optimists and modest pessimists, not extreme "everything is amazing! Life is amazing! Let's all run around and be happy!" optimism and not extreme "we're just going to die, what's the point in doing anything" pessimism.

I'm talking, "My team's really good, there's no way they can lose this game" and "My team never wins. They won't win this one."

So which is better? I find that optimists are often often disappointed. It's hard to thoroughly celebrate a victory you knew would occur as thoroughly as if it's unexpected, and seemed almost a futile cause.

Assuming your optimism or pessimism doesn't change what actually occurs, optimists will either be content that what they expected did happen, or disappointed that it didn't. A pessimist (which I often am) is thrilled when something they were sure wouldn't happen does (like when I get an A on a Spanish writing test I was sure I bombed), and when they don't, they just accept that it happened. At least in my experience (still talking about modest optimism or pessimism).

But the situation changes when you don't talk about something that's going to happen, but viewing what happened in the past. An optimist that did a fundraiser that raised 500 of the 1000 dollars they wanted would be happy that they were able to get money for their cause, while a pessimist would be disappointed that they didn't fulfill their goal of 1000.

Obviously, universal optimism or universal pessimism both have negative consequences when viewed like this.

So is it really all that bad to be a pessimistic person? Is being optimistic just as disappointing? Does it all depend on the situation? Is just looking at the most realistic outcome the best way to live your life?


I'm interested in hearing some opinions on the matter :)

Tigerlilly
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Post #2

Post by Tigerlilly »

There's a time-magazine article discussing this very topic called, i believe, the "science of happiness" and utility.

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bigmrpig
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Post #3

Post by bigmrpig »

Tigerlilly wrote:There's a time-magazine article discussing this very topic called, i believe, the "science of happiness" and utility.
Ah, unfortunately, Time articles are unavailable online. Looking through the archive, the closest I can find to this article name is "The Scientific Pursuit of Happiness," which ran in 1979. Unfortunately, I don't have Time magazines from the 70's, so unless someone subscribes to the Time Magazine archive or keeps really old issues, looks like we're not gunna know what that one said.

But if you know about it, where did you hear about the article? Do you have the issue, and could possibly explain what Time writers think on the matter? The article I found in the archive might not be the one you're thinking of, and if you have any info you could share about this concept, I would love to hear it :)

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ST88
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Re: Optimism and Pessimism...

Post #4

Post by ST88 »

bigmrpig wrote:I'm talking, "My team's really good, there's no way they can lose this game" and "My team never wins. They won't win this one."

So which is better? I find that optimists are often often disappointed. It's hard to thoroughly celebrate a victory you knew would occur as thoroughly as if it's unexpected, and seemed almost a futile cause.

So is it really all that bad to be a pessimistic person? Is being optimistic just as disappointing? Does it all depend on the situation? Is just looking at the most realistic outcome the best way to live your life?
I wish I could provide a link to a study I remember from a couple of years ago. It turns out that optimistic people tend to have better luck than pessimistic people. The experiment went something like this: a group of people were asked to come to an office. There is only one way to get to the office from the parking lot, so everyone has to pass through the same walkway. People were given different times over a certain number of weeks so that only one person at a time was going to the office at any given time. On that walkway was hidden a $100 bill in one place or another.

I don't have the figures, but the optimists found the bill consistently more often than the pessimists did. The speculation is that optimists are constantly looking for ways in which the world confirms their own optimism, and so are looking out for good things to happen, and recognizing them when they do. The pessimists, however, have already accepted that the world is a nasty place and that there's nothing they can do about it, so they don't pay attention as much.

I think your example of the ideal optimist is a little flawed because an optimist would not have very many extreme lows if things did not work out well. An optimist would see the good in the bad situation, even if the bad situation was unexpected. In this way, the optimist is better able to weather bad times because s/he can see past the immediate bad to the overall good. For example, the optimist, upon not being offered a job he thought he was perfect for, could reason that a company that could not recognize his potential would not be a good company to work for. The pessimist in the same situation could reason that there is something wrong with him because his ideal job was something he was not suited for, and he would get discouraged from applying to other similar jobs. The problem for each is in assuming the motives of the recruiter for not hiring him. That is, in each case, the rejected job seeker has in some sense already made up his mind about what to think if the job is not offered even before the interview.

The preconception of how and what to think about a given situation leads to erroneous confirmation of one's own beliefs, because they amount to rationalization. In my view, the universe is effectively random, except as humans define and affect it. This means that neither a pessimistic nor optimistic viewpoint makes any sense. Things just are. And to the extent that you can change things, you can hope and plan and protect and fear, but to stay on one side or the other is mistaking happenstance for intent.

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hannahjoy
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Post #5

Post by hannahjoy »

I'll go for realism. It's a safeguard against both worry and disappointment.
"Bearing shame and scoffing rude,
In my place condemned He stood;
Sealed my pardon with His blood;
Hallelujah! What a Saviour!"
- Philip P. Bliss, 1838-1876

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diciple_of_light
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Post #6

Post by diciple_of_light »

I would have to say that both groups of people are going to be either fairly happy or kinda miserable. But one major argument is that pessimism and optimism are both ways of thinking, the situation doesn't change but the way they go about them does. Even if the situation was really good and it made the people affected happy the pessimist would seek out the unhappy part. were as the opposite is true for the optimist, they will seek out the good in any situation. so if your basing your question on who would be happier i would have to go with the optimist, they will actively seek out the good in every situation making their lives a little happier than the pessimists.

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Post #7

Post by Timeaisis »

I believe it's much better to be pessimistic than optimistic. Some say that your mood defines your actions, and causes you to perform worse. But it is simply your mood, and I think that when viewing this from events occuring to a person as cause of an external force, pessimists lead a more happier life. Although optimistic people may be happy most of the time, in the long run, pessimists are always surprised at the fortunate outcomes, being extra ebullient, and thusly being happier. Optimists may seem to be happier people, and more excited about life, but they end up being dissapointed much more. Not expecting much from something, and being surprised, makes one feel much happier, and ultimately more content with their lives. Although pessimists aren't generally "happy" they usually are content most of the time. Optimists, however, fluxuate from being very happy to very sad and are often very dissapointed.

Besides that, I find optimistic people to be a tad annoying. Sometimes they believe they can do anything and become delusional, naive, and ignorant. I find many people too optimistic, and it leads to narrow-mindedness, among many other poor traits.

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Post #8

Post by DanMRaymond »

I completely disagree with the people that are saying "pessimists lead a happier life." You have to think about the definitions of the words. You don't seem to understand that optimists aren't going to get disappointed when things dont work out. That's the whole point of being an optimist. If something doesnt work out, an optimist will NOT be disappointed, because they are an optimist. They will find a way to view it POSITIVELY.

Example: Lets say im an optimist and my team is losing our basketball game by 20 points or so. I'm going to think positively, and push myself, and continue trying hard until the game is over. If we lose, i'm going to say "well we tried our hardest" and im going to be happy with that fact.



Pessimists, on the other hand, will view things negatively. And if something good happens to them, they will find a way to view it NEGATIVELY. A pessimist isnt going to be surprised when something good happens to him, hes merely going to think of it in a negative way, in comparison with how an optimist would look at it.

Example: Lets take the same scenario. I'm on a team and we're losing by 20. I am a pessimist. I'm going to give up and come to the early conclusion that we cant win the game, and theres no point in trying. Even if we come back and win, i will still view the game negatively, saying that we should never have let the other team gain a lead like that in the first place.


The conclusion:
Optimists = positive Pessimists = negative

In no way does it make sense to call pessimists happier than optimists. We might as well throw the dictionary out the window if we're going to think of it like that.

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Dilettante
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Post #9

Post by Dilettante »

This thread may degenerate into a mere logomachy (that is, a dispute about words) if we don't agree on a precise definition of the words "optimist" and "pessimist". To some, an optmist is by definition more likely to succeed in life, so we should all be optimists. To others, a pessimist is by definition someone who happens to be better informed about the harsh realities of life, and thus will not get as badly hurt when disasters happen. So they think we should all be pessimists. But both things can't be equally good. Let's try to come up with less controversial, generally acceptable definitions.

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Post #10

Post by DanMRaymond »

optimist

n : a person disposed to take a favorable view of things [ant: pessimist]


pessimist

n : a person with the tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable or to take the gloomiest possible view

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