The Ten Commandments

[OnceConvinced]

Have you ever looked at the ten commandments and wonder what the hell was God thinking? Why did he put these ten things above all else? I can understand most of them, but certainly not all.

Just take a look at them:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: (for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;)
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates
5. Honour thy father and thy mother
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The first three commandments are all about God and if they are that important to him then it shows us what an insecure and jealous God he is (Note that jealousy is a sin). That’s 30% of the commandments! Is God’s ego that delicate that he had to include 3 commandments such as this? Then you have laws like “thou shalt not covet” which seems to be small fry in the sin department next to many other things. “Thou shalt not commit adultery” also seems to be a small fish in a big pond when things like rape and paedophilia seem to be given a very low priority.

So what about some of the other important stuff? Where are all the other commandments that would seem to be so incredibly important? Where is…?

Thou shalt not take another human being as a slave (You’d think God would take a harder line on this issue)

Thou shalt not rape (Sexual crimes seem to be unimportant as far as God’s concerned when it comes to the 10 commandments - apart from adultry. In fact the bible says God expects rape victims to marry their abusers)

Thou shalt not take drugs (or something like that. After all, God knows what will happen in the future and must have surely known it would become a major problem further down the line. He is either short sighted or has no knowledge of what will happen in the future.)

I am aware there are a lot of issues dealt with in other parts of the Torah relating to immoralities, however the 10 Commandments seem to stand out as God’s main issues and that is what I am trying to focus on here.

So my questions:
What commandments that haven't been included do you think should have been included and why?
Should any have been omitted? Why?
Should any have been reworded or elaborated more on?.

[Beta]

Fallible , God does not have to educate himself but ignorant man and beginning to perceive the spiritual aspect of our future needs addressing early on seeing we only live a short time - though long enough if we are obedient to God.

[Fallibleone]

Fallible , God does not have to educate himself but ignorant man and beginning to perceive the spiritual aspect of our future needs addressing early on seeing we only live a short time - though long enough if we are obedient to God.

Your comment that

God can not speak to man entirely along human lines

defines and so limits him by showing he is not omnipotent. How is it possible to see this as a failing not of God, but of 'ignorant man', whom he made, apparently without establishing a workable means of communication between himself and them?

Your posts show that you believe you know about God - is he so easily definable? If he is, he sould be easily observable (meaning that he works within natural laws) and it should not have to be down to 'ignorant man's' interpretation of his Word in order to work out what he wants. If he is not definable, how are you able to speak for him?

[Beta]

Fallible , sorry, I can see now how I might be giving a wrong impression of God for you to think him at fault.
When I said God can not speak to man on our terms I was not impying God can not but sometimes chooses a different approach in order to teach us something new.
God may say something that does not make sense to us to shake us loose from our earthly understanding which is so deeply ingrained in the natural man it takes some shifting . Error or sin has very deep roots like a weed that must be gently loosed and not yanked up leaving enough behind to grow again. If you have ever done any weeding you will know how it must be tackled to get all of the root. So it's not a question of God being incapable or imperfect in any way but he is careful to do the best for us slow as it may be.
Believing God is the most basic requirement and many have not even started with that.

[Goat]

There is nothing silly about the 10 lost tribes since Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel , as were the original Apostles.
All the tribes had different parentage, not all came from Judah who were called Jews.
It's what the Bible says , people's opinions don't count.

You claim that the bible says that. Why don't you give quotes from the bible, and we can look at the quotes in context?

Mat.15v24
Mat.10v6

As for all the sons of Jacob (named Israel) we need to go back into the OT. I'll look it up if you need to know where.

Somehow, I don't accept the New Testament for claims that are made about the Tanakah. And, where does it say that the 'lost sheep of Israel' were not Jews?

Where did it say that the 10 lost tribes' were not jews? If you look at Math 10V5
it says "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:" Paul went to the Gentiles, not Jesus.

So far, your quotes fail to support your contention that the 'lost tribes' were not Jews, nor does it support that the "Lost sheep of Israel' are the 10 lost tribes, from either a NT standpoint, or a Jewish scripture stand point.

[Beta]

Somehow, I don't accept the New Testament for claims that are made about the Tanakah. And, where does it say that the 'lost sheep of Israel' were not Jews?

Where did it say that the 10 lost tribes' were not jews? If you look at Math 10V5
it says "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:" Paul went to the Gentiles, not Jesus.

So far, your quotes fail to support your contention that the 'lost tribes' were not Jews, nor does it support that the "Lost sheep of Israel' are the 10 lost tribes, from either a NT standpoint, or a Jewish scripture stand point.

It would help if you stuck to english, how should i know what a TANAKAH is when I'm not jewish?
Since before the NT the jews have been identified and are known the world over - but not so the Israelites. You yourself should be aware that all Jews are of Israel but not all Israelites are Jews. Mat.10v5 is just what it says in v6, they were to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The Jews were not lost at that time. A long time back they had even become 2 nations fighting each other. Oh yes, they were very much separated. what other standpoint than scripture can one take ? The only time a Jew can consider himself a lost sheep is when he is ignorant of his heritage and that might only apply to a very few but not a whole nation known to the world.

[Fallibleone]

Fallible , sorry, I can see now how I might be giving a wrong impression of God for you to think him at fault.

Just for the record - I'm sure you know this already, but in case anyone does not, I don't think God is perfect or imperfect. I don't think God is.

When I said God can not speak to man on our terms I was not impying God can not but sometimes chooses a different approach in order to teach us something new.

The words 'God can not' don't imply anything. They state pretty unequivocally that God can not. But that aside, he seems to have 'chosen' an approach which is ambiguous and ineffective, since so many people are able to read such contradictory things into it. Inevitably, some people get the 'wrong' message. This would show him to be not perfect, unless he intends for some of us to get the 'wrong' message. In which case, why?

God may say something that does not make sense to us to shake us loose from our earthly understanding which is so deeply ingrained in the natural man it takes some shifting .

So whereas before he could not say things to us because we would not understand, he now is saying things to us which we cannot understand, in order that we are shaken loose from earthly understanding. I'm not sure how that would work. It's difficult to see how such a process would shake anyone loose from anything, seeing as we can't understand it.

Error or sin has very deep roots like a weed that must be gently loosed and not yanked up leaving enough behind to grow again. If you have ever done any weeding you will know how it must be tackled to get all of the root.

Not being religious, I don't recognise the concept of sin. As far as the roots of error go, what exactly are they, and where is (drum roll) free will in all this? What if I like my error and want my roots left where they are?

So it's not a question of God being incapable or imperfect in any way but he is careful to do the best for us slow as it may be.

Again, where does the 'knowledge' of a God who operates outside natural law come from? Or do you not concur with that argument?

Believing God is the most basic requirement and many have not even started with that.

Actually this is not true for many people. Believing in God is not a basic requirement. Those words make it sound much too easy. Such a thing is above and beyond my capability. It would need a literally super human effort on my part to make myself believe something which I do not believe. In such a circumstance it is not a question of 'not even' starting with that. As things stand at the moment regarding available evidence, I have as much chance of being able to travel via woodlouse unicycle from here (6 miles outside the centre of Liverpool) to you in West Yorkshire by 6 this evening (20 minutes from now) as I do of being able to believe in something which I don't believe in.

[daedalus 2.0]

Fallible , sorry, I can see now how I might be giving a wrong impression of God for you to think him at fault.
When I said God can not speak to man on our terms I was not impying God can not but sometimes chooses a different approach in order to teach us something new.
God may say something that does not make sense to us to shake us loose from our earthly understanding which is so deeply ingrained in the natural man it takes some shifting . Error or sin has very deep roots like a weed that must be gently loosed and not yanked up leaving enough behind to grow again. If you have ever done any weeding you will know how it must be tackled to get all of the root. So it's not a question of God being incapable or imperfect in any way but he is careful to do the best for us slow as it may be.
Believing God is the most basic requirement and many have not even started with that.

1. How do you know its God doing that at all (that a God exists in the first place).
2. How did God supposedly tell you sin is like a weed - or is this YOU talking and not God?
3. How do you know that you have the full story? That your understanding is only in the first part of the "loosening" stage, and not the final one, and that you are giving us horribley wrong information?

Since you talk to God, and he seems to answer you so clearly, perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us.

[Goat]

Somehow, I don't accept the New Testament for claims that are made about the Tanakah. And, where does it say that the 'lost sheep of Israel' were not Jews?

Where did it say that the 10 lost tribes' were not jews? If you look at Math 10V5
it says "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:" Paul went to the Gentiles, not Jesus.

So far, your quotes fail to support your contention that the 'lost tribes' were not Jews, nor does it support that the "Lost sheep of Israel' are the 10 lost tribes, from either a NT standpoint, or a Jewish scripture stand point.

It would help if you stuck to english, how should i know what a TANAKAH is when I'm not jewish?
Since before the NT the jews have been identified and are known the world over - but not so the Israelites. You yourself should be aware that all Jews are of Israel but not all Israelites are Jews. Mat.10v5 is just what it says in v6, they were to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The Jews were not lost at that time. A long time back they had even become 2 nations fighting each other. Oh yes, they were very much separated. what other standpoint than scripture can one take ? The only time a Jew can consider himself a lost sheep is when he is ignorant of his heritage and that might only apply to a very few but not a whole nation known to the world.

Simple education is important, don't you think? The tanakh is the Jewish scripture,
consisting of the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings. Christians called it the 'Old Testament", but as far as the Jewish faith is concerned, there is only 1 'testament'.

And, your repeating claims without backing them up doesn't really resolve anything you know.

There is a technique for studying that might help you. It is known as 'reading in context'. If you make a claim about a single line in the bible, it might do you good to know what the author of that line was talking about, by making yourself familar with the passages before and after the passage you quote. Often, you will find that it has an entirely different set of meanings than the one you are assigning to it when you lift it out of the bible without that context.

[daedalus 2.0]

God may say something that does not make sense to us to shake us loose from our earthly understanding which is so deeply ingrained in the natural man it takes some shifting .

God may say something that doesn't make sense? Then how do you know to tell us this much? How do you know you have interptretted God's message correctly?

I am amazed at your confidence that you have understood an Omnipotent Being correctly and feel you can speak for him on this lowly mortal plane.

[Beta]

Fallible , you have a serious problem with unbelief . Until you are able to accept correction you will never move from your stance. You can rest assured that God will not move from His Word, it is up to man to fall in with Him if we want eternity.