So I have been noticing this thing a lot lately in this forum. Person A will provide their claim and then Person B will oppose that claim and then Person A will ask what proof they have to oppose the claim then Person B will claim that they don't have to provide any proof because person A didn't provide any proof for their claim in the first place and so on and so forth.
It is as if people stop debating because they are too focused on proving that the other person hasn't provided evidence instead of proving the OP.
If you make a claim, is it not your obligation to protect it? Perhaps you feel that the a person attacking your claim has no merit, but shouldn't you prove that by proving your claim true instead of attacking them?
If a Christian says "there is God" does that person not need some sort of back-up for their statement?
If an Atheist says "there is no God", does that person not need some sort of back-up for their statement?
Wouldn't proof of your claim be the best way to show the other person is wrong in theirs? People are getting too caught up in arguing and not caught up enough in debating.
I'm a little sick and my thoughts are kind of scattered, I hope you can understand what I'm meaning.
Evidence
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McCulloch
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Post #2
I agree completely with you.
However, since your post is not an actual question for debate, I have moved it out of the debating forums and into a discussion forum.
However, since your post is not an actual question for debate, I have moved it out of the debating forums and into a discussion forum.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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The Duke of Vandals
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Re: Evidence
Post #4OpenedUp wrote:If a Christian says "there is God" does that person not need some sort of back-up for their statement?
Absolutely. They need to provide evidence.
Absolutely. They need to demonstrate how claiming god's existence A) has no evidence and B) contradicts what we already know to be true.If an Atheist says "there is no God", does that person not need some sort of back-up for their statement?
Mostly, it's because Christians have a different set of rules for what constitutes proof where Christianity is concerned.Wouldn't proof of your claim be the best way to show the other person is wrong in theirs? People are getting too caught up in arguing and not caught up enough in debating.
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Zzyzx
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Re: Evidence
Post #5.
Religious “truth” simply means whatever the religion says is true. If religious storytellers claim that the Earth stops rotating, it is regarded as true by believers – regardless how irrational the claim is with respect to what is known about physics, astronomy, rational thinking, and the real world we inhabit.
An “eyewitness account” in religious terminology means that someone wrote that someone said that someone saw something. In reality that is known as hearsay or legend – but certainly not “eyewitness account”.
When there is a religion involved believers accept stories that they would reject immediately from another source. Claim that a person walks on water and be rejected; claim that a dead person came back to life and there isn’t a chance that the claim will be accepted. Claim that a virgin gave birth and listen to the laughter. BUT, if the stories are told by Bronze Age storytellers in the name of religion, they are instantly believed.The Duke of Vandals wrote:Mostly, it's because Christians have a different set of rules for what constitutes proof where Christianity is concerned.
Religious “truth” simply means whatever the religion says is true. If religious storytellers claim that the Earth stops rotating, it is regarded as true by believers – regardless how irrational the claim is with respect to what is known about physics, astronomy, rational thinking, and the real world we inhabit.
An “eyewitness account” in religious terminology means that someone wrote that someone said that someone saw something. In reality that is known as hearsay or legend – but certainly not “eyewitness account”.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Post #6
"What is excepted without evidence can be denied without evidence." -someone smarter than me.
If party A does not give any evidence for their claims the party B does not have to give any evidence to deny the claims of Party A.
Auto Salesman(AS): This car runs like a champ!
Buyer: Can we start it up?
AS: No sir. We don't have the keys. Heck I haven't heard it run my self.
Buyer: Then how do you know it "runs like a champ"?
AS: The sales manager, who told me, talked to the tow truck guy and he said it runs like a champ.
Buyer: If it runs like a Champ then why did he tow it?
AS: He didn't have the key but the previous owner put a bumper sticker on it that says it runs like a champ. That sticker, as you can plainly see is still there.
Buyer: That just means that the previous owner is a liar or once thought it ran like a champ. Without proof I'm not buying it.
AS: Fine then! I hope you like walking.
The buyer writes a letter to the editor of their local paper warning everyone of the shady auto salesman. This is followed by the auto salesman calling the buyer names in the paper.
If party A does not give any evidence for their claims the party B does not have to give any evidence to deny the claims of Party A.
Auto Salesman(AS): This car runs like a champ!
Buyer: Can we start it up?
AS: No sir. We don't have the keys. Heck I haven't heard it run my self.
Buyer: Then how do you know it "runs like a champ"?
AS: The sales manager, who told me, talked to the tow truck guy and he said it runs like a champ.
Buyer: If it runs like a Champ then why did he tow it?
AS: He didn't have the key but the previous owner put a bumper sticker on it that says it runs like a champ. That sticker, as you can plainly see is still there.
Buyer: That just means that the previous owner is a liar or once thought it ran like a champ. Without proof I'm not buying it.
AS: Fine then! I hope you like walking.
The buyer writes a letter to the editor of their local paper warning everyone of the shady auto salesman. This is followed by the auto salesman calling the buyer names in the paper.
