In the “How many atheists celebrate Christmas?” thread the following exchange took place when Cnorman was intrigued by what I said about the lifestyle I share with my Wonderful Wife. I start a new thread here in General Chat because it is discussion rather than debate.
cnorman18 wrote:Zzyzx, that is wholly admirable--and amazing. What on earth do you do for a living that makes you so independent? I admit u'm intrigued. Such independence has always seemed like an impossible dream to me, and only available to the wealthy, which you apparently aren't, in conventional (money) terms.Zzyzx wrote:.We are not interested in post-Christmas sales either. We are not very good consumers -- and buy very little in retail establishments. Thus, we are able to we live very comfortably on an income that is considered "poverty level".cnorman18 wrote:It also allows you to avoid the jacked-up pre-Christmas prices and take advantage of the January sales; many Jews appreciate that small advantage, too.
We are very wealthy in terms other than money, possessions and power. We want for nothing and value only things that we use regularly (functional items). Our lifestyle is different from most (and incomprehensible to many) – and suits us perfectly.
We usually remember when birthdays and anniversaries occur and at least mention them during the day. Occasionally we will remember late in the day or days later. "Gifts" and "surprises" are not significant to us. If I bought my wife an "anniversary present" she would wonder what the heck was wrong with me. Come to think of it, I might just have to do something like that just for the effect.cnorman18 wrote:It's a fatuous question, but I'll ask it anyway; do you celebrate personal events, like birthdays and anniversaries?
Likewise, weekends and "vacations" mean nothing to us because we do only what we want each day -- not just two days per week or two weeks per year. We have no obligations to anyone except each other (and those are not considered obligations). It has been this way for so many years that we can hardly remember being obligated to do things we didn't want to do.
Teach me. This I must learn.
Cnorman,
Thank you for the kind words, the recognition and your interest. I am willing to share our experience with anyone interested enough to ask.
I "retired" from "the best job in the world" twenty-eight years ago. I was a fully tenured university professor, teaching twelve hours per week, seven months per year, with every seventh year off at half pay for sabbatical, uncommonly good benefits and “lifetime security”.
In 1980 I was 40 years old and had been teaching full-time at the university for ten years (and several years part time previously as a graduate student elsewhere). The learning curve of effective teaching had run its course. I had put in several years being as good as I was going to get. Repetition and burn-out would have taken a toll soon (if they hadn’t already). It was time to do something different.
In spite of much discouraging “advice” from friends and colleagues (totally ignored), I “retired” (and actually qualified for a tiny, tiny pension). “But what will you do if . . . . . . . . “ (fill in the blank) was the immediate reaction from almost everyone. “Play it safe and stay until you get Social Security and a full pension” (which would have been generous).
Others stayed, probably until they retired or died trying. I bought a comfortable older fifth-wheel trailer and a faithful old pickup truck and headed west. I was convinced that, “on guts and brains I can go anywhere I want and do whatever I want”. Perhaps I should have been frightened – but I wasn’t – ever.
That was the best decision I made in life (other than marrying my wife – who came along twenty years later – though I was seldom without companionship during that time). I have gone wherever I wanted and done whatever I wanted – for almost thirty years. I have never regretted leaving the “security” (and monotony) for “insecurity” and adventure. Life has been exciting, rewarding and fulfilling. A fifth-wheeler is still our home and we still have a faithful old pickup truck (though now it is a 15 year old Cummins diesel Dodge 4 x 4).
Volunteer Lifestyle
During my first year of “retirement”, I stayed for a time at a state park in New Mexico. While there I did what comes naturally and “spruced up the place”. I do not do idleness well and don’t ever watch television or movies. A rustic and demanding trail into the mountains from the park was littered with trash left by thoughtless hikers. I hiked to the end with an empty backpack and came back with a full backpack of junk – twice. This was not unnoticed by the park manager, and he and I became fast friends. He wouldn’t let me pay camping fees after that.
Hmmmm. What a deal. I do what I would anyway and something nice comes back. I visited several New Mexico State Parks and always felt appreciated. Later in the Cascade Mountains of Oregon near Bend, I was a volunteer forest ranger. My primary “duty” was to canoe back on high alpine lakes to “show the presence of the uniform”, do a bit of public education, and gather information for the Forest Service about where people were “dispersed camping” along the lakeshores.
The FS provided canoe, uniforms, radio, computer – AND a full hookup site for my RV 40 miles up in the mountains at a nearly deserted “project camp”. It was tough living – particularly since there was a trout stream 100 yards from my trailer and I enjoy fly fishing the little mountain streams for trout. I “worked” parts of two days a week. After getting to know all the trout in the nearby stream personally, I volunteered to do some welding. The project grew and I was given a small contract. What a life. Out in the mountains, doing things I loved doing AND being compensated.
Another time my wife and I volunteered to help at a Christmas tree farm that provided cut-your-own trees. What a neat experience. The farm owner was a wonderful fellow who became a great friend; his employees were nice people, and the customers were typically young families with children – out having a greatl time. We stayed for seven months (even though sale of Christmas tress dropped off precipitously sometime in late December). After the tree season we helped care for his animals and helped a little with his landscaping tree business. Although we wouldn’t take any money he did provide a great place for us to park our trailer, with electric and phone lines, plus diesel fuel for our truck and propane . . . . . Balance. Win – Win.
Currently we are in the Ozarks doing volunteer work for the Forest Service. The FS provides us with a full hookup site, a phone line, a cell phone, storage building, a truck to drive if we want (we use ours and are compensated for mileage), any tools and equipment we need, etc. We cut hazard trees and branches, repair things, build things and do a lot of maintenance that budgets do not provide for currently. The trees and large branches we cut into firewood that we give away (and are starting a trend in the government campgrounds).
We also volunteer to help at a food bank that provides groceries for needy people. It is a Christian organization, but we don’t hold that against them, and we fit right in with others who realize that giving is far more rewarding than getting. After all the food recipients have their groceries, extras are available to the volunteers – meat, bread, vegetables, canned goods, dairy products, eggs, etc.
We find that “what you put out comes back”. Occasionally we encounter situations in which people attempt to be “users” or “takers” – but we recognize them very quickly as people who do not understand balance in relationships (where possible) and who expect to be given what they want. We simply go away and don’t return. We often help people who honestly can give nothing in return but a smile – and that is more than adequate.
No one can tell us to do anything. We do not associate with anyone we dislike. We are not obligated to anyone. We have only tiny monthly bills (such as for ISP service). We pay cash and finance nothing.
A very common question we hear from people who learn about our lifestyle is, “Why would anyone work without getting paid?” If they don’t catch on pretty quickly we don’t try to educate them. Those who do understand often say, “That seems wonderful, but it’s not for me.” We agree and do not encourage anyone to do what we do.
The MOST common question we hear is (believe-it-or-not), “Where do you get your mail?” (as though mail was important somehow). We communicate with the world via the Internet.
There are some things that require cash – such as vehicle license, insurance and fuel (though we have been provided with diesel fuel and are often given a mileage compensation for task related driving), Internet service provider, occasional equipment or tool upgrades, etc. To produce a very limited amount of cash we have done occasional small contract construction or maintenance jobs. Occasionally we take a small contract from the FS to do a specific project that is too much to ask of a volunteer.
We have sold things on eBay in the past and still buy things occasionally. For the past few years I have been receiving Social Security based on my payments almost thirty years ago. We have money left over even though our total income would hardly pay the rent on a modest apartment.
It helps that we are NOT consumption or entertainment oriented. We have no expensive habits or “needs”. We do not require the services of beauticians, cleaners, actors, musicians, clowns, mechanics, technicians, etc. We do nearly everything for ourselves. We love to go to auctions and garage sales – where we buy everything from clothes to tools to pressure cookers. The latter is a great example of our frugality. A new pressure cooker (needed for home canning which we enjoy doing) costs around $100. We purchased a great old high-quality pressure cooker for $2 at a yard sale – and a pickup truck load of canning jars for $20.
Cnorman, we were “neighbors” of yours a few years ago when we owned property in NE Texas. We are now about 350 miles NE of Dallas. Perhaps sometime you could visit to see first-hand whereof we speak.
Anyone is welcome to ask questions.
