Intro - Bible Believing Christian

[codybarr]

My Name is Cody. I am a Christian, in stating that I qualify it with the declaration that I trust in Christ alone to save me from my sin.

My observations of the Natural World are based on a Biblical Worldview founded on the Word of God, for it is my sole authority for all matters relating to life and godliness. 2Pe 1:3.

For a Doctrinal Statement of my beliefs check out my Website - http://platip.us/doctrinal-creed (Sorry for the ugliness, it is often updated).

For a demonstration of what the Bible says regarding salvation check out: http://platip.us/gospel/

[micatala]

Hello, Cody

In fact the Bible is not inerrant, the Bible has about 110 contradictions in it. And if you take a look at these pages, you will discover that there's many disputes about the authors of the gospels and the date of authorship, specially the Gospel of John which many scholars prove that it was not written by John the Apostle.
(read the sections about authorship and date)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

The only correct and inerrant holy book on earth is the Quran, the holy book of Islam which no letter has ever changed in it since God revealed it to His prophet Mohammad by His angel Gabriel from the year 610 AD to 633 AD.

If you want to know more about Islam and the Quran, i'm ready to talk to you.

The Bible is inerrant, and the quran was not written by mohammed, and mohammed wasn't a prophet!
Jesus Christ is Gods Son in the flesh.
Mohammed was in fact a pedophile! That was and is a sin! Always has been!
The quran is a confusing contradictory untenable writing, that is in dispute who even wrote it.
The Bible is 700 years before the quran and the quran borrows from the inerrant Bible heavily.
Mohammed never prophesied anything so he could be checked out as a prophet.
Mohammed died just like everybody else.
Jesus Christ died BUT HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD!
Mohammed said (supposedly) that he knew the way to god?
Jesus Christ said: "I am God"!!!
BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!
If you would like to be born spiritually and know the one and true God personally, ask me I'll introduce you.


Biker
What is in the big black box in Mecca?

I will again invite Biker to debate the inerrancy of the Bible here.

[alaa_kalala]

hello , goat,
nice to meet you too.

I know that there isn't anyplace in the Bible that Jesus actually said "I am God" or "Worship me", that's i don't rely a lot on that fact, because there are stronger evidences which proves that the Bible is not the word of God and that Christians build their beliefs upon conjecture and suspect and traditions.

Now about whether Jesus was a prophet or not, and Mohammad was a prophet or not...
In fact, since you don't believe in the Quran, you have the right to suspect Jesus prophecy (of even if there was a real Jesus or not) because of the very ambiguous history about that period of time, and i basically believe in Jesus because i believe in the Quran and the Quran told that Jesus was a prophet before Mohammad.

Now i want to invite you to join Islam and investigate more about it, because the Quran is %100 reliable and trustworthy because of a few reasons :
1- the very clear and undisputeable history about that period of time (610 AD - 633 AD)
2- the very big number of trusted, honest people who assured that Mohammad saw Gabriel (God's angel) whereas who are the people who assured that the Apostles and Paul were inspired by the Holy Spirit ?
3- the very big biography books that talk about the companions of the Prophet Mohammad and their honesty and very good morals.

In Islam things are very clear and convincing, not like Christianity where everything is built on suspects and conjecture.

About your second post, i want to tell you that someone can't say "i don't believe in something" without evidences. You must know that there is a very big number of people who say that the Quran is the word of God, and a very big number of people who say the Bible is the word of God, so you can't belie the two sides by simply saying "i don't believe in...". You must show your evidences, because you will be asked about your evidences (proofs) later by God Himself.

I would like to continue discussing this subject through emails, so i will send you my email address in a private message.

Nice to meet you again. Bye.

[Goat]

hello , goat,
nice to meet you too.

I know that there isn't anyplace in the Bible that Jesus actually said "I am God" or "Worship me", that's i don't rely a lot on that fact, because there are stronger evidences which proves that the Bible is not the word of God and that Christians build their beliefs upon conjecture and suspect and traditions.

Now about whether Jesus was a prophet or not, and Mohammad was a prophet or not...
In fact, since you don't believe in the Quran, you have the right to suspect Jesus prophecy (of even if there was a real Jesus or not) because of the very ambiguous history about that period of time, and i basically believe in Jesus because i believe in the Quran and the Quran told that Jesus was a prophet before Mohammad.

Now i want to invite you to join Islam and investigate more about it, because the Quran is %100 reliable and trustworthy because of a few reasons :
1- the very clear and undisputeable history about that period of time (610 AD - 633 AD)
2- the very big number of trusted, honest people who assured that Mohammad saw Gabriel (God's angel) whereas who are the people who assured that the Apostles and Paul were inspired by the Holy Spirit ?
3- the very big biography books that talk about the companions of the Prophet Mohammad and their honesty and very good morals.

In Islam things are very clear and convincing, not like Christianity where everything is built on suspects and conjecture.

About your second post, i want to tell you that someone can't say "i don't believe in something" without evidences. You must know that there is a very big number of people who say that the Quran is the word of God, and a very big number of people who say the Bible is the word of God, so you can't belie the two sides by simply saying "i don't believe in...". You must show your evidences, because you will be asked about your evidences (proofs) later by God Himself.

I would like to continue discussing this subject through emails, so i will send you my email address in a private message.

Nice to meet you again. Bye.

Well, there is a number of things about that. Even if the hsitory was reasonably accurate, it doesn't mean that it is inspired by God. I don't care how many people believe it is , that is the logical fallacy known as 'argument by popularity'. If it makes a claim , it doesn't mean that claim is true.

IMO, if the Koran was inspired by God, then there wouldn't be so many different versions of Islam that are fighting each other, and calling the opposition "Not true Muslims". The Shiites and the Sunnies would not be killing each other over minor
differences of religion. There would not be the repressive groups such as the talian. In other words. I see the same flaws as I see in the other religious writings.

[alaa_kalala]

goat,

First. History is not inspired by God, only the Quran which is written in arabic language exactly like God revealed to Mohammad (which one of its first five copies that were made by Uthman Ibn Affan is now in Saudi Arabia, and there are a lot of its old copies around the world in many museums as far as i know) is inspired by God.
And this type of inspiration we call it "external inspiration" which means that Mohammad was told the Quran by God's angel Gabriel by word and by meaning. This type of inspiration "external inspiration" differs from that type of "internal inspiration" which happens with writers and musicians.
I agree with you that you don't have to believe in something told by very big number of people who you don't know anything about, but what if you know that there are very big biography books which talk about the character and morals of the companions of the Prophet Mohammad, and these biography books are written by trusted historians (not like that catholic church saints who tried to rewrite the history of the first three centuries to go in context with the Bible).
Do you think that all those honest, trustworthy, moral, devout people were lying ? Don't you feel guilty for belying all those people ? Please remember that those people are not liars like the World's recent leaders.

Second, i agree that there a lot of muslim sects (the biggest are Sunni and Shiites), but that doesn't mean that the Quran wasn't revealed by God to Mohammad. And remember that in spite of having a lot of muslim sects, we don't have different versions of the Quran, all the sects believe in exactly the same Quran (but Shiites think that Mohammad's cousin should have ruled the muslims after the death of Mohammad instead of Abu Baker Al Siddiq, and bigotry blinded their eyes, and they started their own sect called "Shittes" but they believe in the same Quran). And after all that, don't you have a mind to judge which is true and which is false ? Why do you think God gave you your mind ? Isn't it to work it in situations like this and discover who is true and who is a liar ?

I invite you again to free you mind and your thinking, and you'll see how your mind will guide to Islam.

I still insist on talking by emails because it's more organized.

[alaa_kalala]

Hi there, alaa_kalala.

I must confess I hold as much regard for Islam as I do for Christianity, but if a particular instance made me choose between the two, it would be something like reading a post from a 55-year-old Biker and a response from a 25-year-old you. Very classy. Hope you stick around, you have weapons I can't fight with.

Hi Beto,
I'm very glad to meet a man like you.
Thank you for calling my response "classy". In fact, i'm not a bigot, and believe me that i'm ready to believe in any other book than the Quran if someone can prove to me that it's more reliable and trustworthy than the Quan, but i have read a lot about the Bible and about the Quran, and i discovered that there's no comparison. I discovered that the Quran is the only reliable, inerrant holy book on earth.

Do you believe in God ?

I will send you my email in a private message, and hope that you talk to me.

Bye.

[Fisherking]

The only correct and inerrant holy book on earth is the Quran, the holy book of Islam which no letter has ever changed in it since God revealed it to His prophet Mohammad by His angel Gabriel from the year 610 AD to 633 AD.

The Qur'an
An Evaluation of the Muslim Claims

[alaa_kalala]

The only correct and inerrant holy book on earth is the Quran, the holy book of Islam which no letter has ever changed in it since God revealed it to His prophet Mohammad by His angel Gabriel from the year 610 AD to 633 AD.

The Qur'an
An Evaluation of the Muslim Claims

Hi Fisherking,

The "Quran" can ONLY be written in Arabic Language.
When the Quran is translated into another language other than Arabic, it becomes "Translation of the Quran" not "Quran".
Why don't people who write those pages learn Arabic language and publish these contradictions they claim in the Quran in books ?
I promise you, if they publish these contraditions they claim in a book, i will be the first one who attacks the Quran. But they won't because those people can only spread their perversion by those web pages, because no one can judge them or show their lies.

About abrogation. The Quran was revealed in 23 years. During those 23 years, God sent different orders to Mohammad at different times.
For example, God didn't allow Muslims to fight Pagans when Muslims were in Mecca, but after Muslims migrated from Mecca to Yathrib (Al-Madina), God allowed Muslims to fight Pagans. So the newer orders abrogated the old orders, and Muslims now must follow the newest orders.
And when the Quran was compiled, Muslims didn't remove the scriptures which contain the old orders, because they wanted to keep the Quran exactly as it was reavealed to Mohammad by the angel Gabriel.

[Fisherking]

The only correct and inerrant holy book on earth is the Quran, the holy book of Islam which no letter has ever changed in it since God revealed it to His prophet Mohammad by His angel Gabriel from the year 610 AD to 633 AD.

The Qur'an
An Evaluation of the Muslim Claims

Hi Fisherking,

The "Quran" can ONLY be written in Arabic Language.
When the Quran is translated into another language other than Arabic, it becomes "Translation of the Quran" not "Quran".
Why don't people who write those pages learn Arabic language and publish these contradictions they claim in the Quran in books ?

Many of the writers that contribute to that website do understand or are Arabic themselves.

I promise you, if they publish these contraditions they claim in a book, i will be the first one who attacks the Quran.

Many of the authors of the various articles on that website are people who have published the same material in books.

But they won't because those people can only spread their perversion by those web pages, because no one can judge them or show their lies.

How would material from a website be exempt from crititcism?

About abrogation. The Quran was revealed in 23 years. During those 23 years, God sent different orders to Mohammad at different times.
For example, God didn't allow Muslims to fight Pagans when Muslims were in Mecca, but after Muslims migrated from Mecca to Yathrib (Al-Madina), God allowed Muslims to fight Pagans. So the newer orders abrogated the old orders, and Muslims now must follow the newest orders.
And when the Quran was compiled, Muslims didn't remove the scriptures which contain the old orders, because they wanted to keep the Quran exactly as it was reavealed to Mohammad by the angel Gabriel.

The Problem of Abrogation in the Quran

[alaa_kalala]

Hello Fisherking,

First i want to tell you that i'm very glad to meet a Christian who really cares about finding the truth and who has investigated all that about the Quran. Because i despise other Christians who simple say "Mohammad was a liar" or "The Quran is fake" or "Islam is a lie" without any proof or investigation or evidence.

I tell you again, only the Quran (which is only written in Arabic) must be criticized, not the translations. I admit that there are a few bad translations of the Quran and as i told you these are not considered a "Quran" they are considered only "Translations".

If those people published those contradictions in a book or books, would you please tell me the name of the book or books ?

I read in that page you told me about this :
"I struggled with the question of how an eternal revelation of Allah could have such time-bound revelation in it. It seemed at odds with the nature of Allah – the all-knowing, all-wise, creator and sustainer of the universe; the eternal, self-existent one."

Before i talk about abrogation, i would like to differentiate between two things which are :
1-The Creed (dogma) : consists of : belief in one God, belief in all the prophets, belief in all the angels, and belief in all the holy books which God has revealed to His prophets.
2-The Law : consists of the doctrines or rules, like : drink or don't drink wine, fornication is prohibited or not, pray two or three times a day, eat or don't eat pork.

Now, abrogation does not mean that God (Allah) had made a mistake and then discovered that and sent a new rule (doctrine) to fix that mistake, but God has sent different rules at differet times, each rule was suitable for a specified period of time during the first years of Islam, and the new rules abrogated (annulled) the old rules. Now if you check the abrogated verses in Quran, you'll see that all of them concern the Law not the Creed. The Creed must never be changed, whereas the Law can be changed. That's why God prohibited worshipping more than one God since the first day of Islam, whereas He prohibited drinking wine after about (17 years as i remember).

Now if the writer considers that abrogation contradicts with the Quran being an eternal revelation :
I don't see it enough to prove that the Quran is not the word of God. And let me assure you that when the first muslim ruler compiled the Quran and made the first copy of it (after it was written on thin sheets of stone, and tree leaves, and animal leather), they knew that there were abrogated verses, but left it because they wanted to write the Quran exactly as it was revealed to Mohammad.

Another thing, the Quran does not have any contradictory stories or information about the past like what there's in the Bible. I don't know how you believe in the Bible while you consider the Quran (which is at least more reliable historically than the Bible) is not true.

[Biker]

Hello Fisherking,

First i want to tell you that i'm very glad to meet a Christian who really cares about finding the truth and who has investigated all that about the Quran. Because i despise other Christians who simple say "Mohammad was a liar" or "The Quran is fake" or "Islam is a lie" without any proof or investigation or evidence.

I tell you again, only the Quran (which is only written in Arabic) must be criticized, not the translations. I admit that there are a few bad translations of the Quran and as i told you these are not considered a "Quran" they are considered only "Translations".

If those people published those contradictions in a book or books, would you please tell me the name of the book or books ?

I read in that page you told me about this :
"I struggled with the question of how an eternal revelation of Allah could have such time-bound revelation in it. It seemed at odds with the nature of Allah – the all-knowing, all-wise, creator and sustainer of the universe; the eternal, self-existent one."

Before i talk about abrogation, i would like to differentiate between two things which are :
1-The Creed (dogma) : consists of : belief in one God, belief in all the prophets, belief in all the angels, and belief in all the holy books which God has revealed to His prophets.
2-The Law : consists of the doctrines or rules, like : drink or don't drink wine, fornication is prohibited or not, pray two or three times a day, eat or don't eat pork.

Now, abrogation does not mean that God (Allah) had made a mistake and then discovered that and sent a new rule (doctrine) to fix that mistake, but God has sent different rules at differet times, each rule was suitable for a specified period of time during the first years of Islam, and the new rules abrogated (annulled) the old rules. Now if you check the abrogated verses in Quran, you'll see that all of them concern the Law not the Creed. The Creed must never be changed, whereas the Law can be changed. That's why God prohibited worshipping more than one God since the first day of Islam, whereas He prohibited drinking wine after about (17 years as i remember).

Now if the writer considers that abrogation contradicts with the Quran being an eternal revelation :
I don't see it enough to prove that the Quran is not the word of God. And let me assure you that when the first muslim ruler compiled the Quran and made the first copy of it (after it was written on thin sheets of stone, and tree leaves, and animal leather), they knew that there were abrogated verses, but left it because they wanted to write the Quran exactly as it was revealed to Mohammad.

Another thing, the Quran does not have any contradictory stories or information about the past like what there's in the Bible. I don't know how you believe in the Bible while you consider the Quran (which is at least more reliable historically than the Bible) is not true.

Because i despise Christians who simply say bla bla bla...

Is it proper for a muslim to despise a Christian? Does the quran have anything to say about this?
What about pedophile? Mohammed was a pedophile! A 9 year old little girl?
What does the quran say about that?

Biker