Do the ends justify the means?

[Ncik666]

I've done some thinking and heres my question. We'll take a really far out example first:
1) If you had to kill one child to save all life in the Universe (including us) could you do it?
2) If you had to kill one child to save all life on Earth could you do it?
3) If you had to kill one child to stop all disease and give humans eternal life could you do it.
4) If you had to kill one child to save a bus load of other children (at least 20) could you do it?

My motive here is to see how far people might go. My answers to all of these are yes. I wouldn't go further than 4 though. I have always believed in the many over the few,
I was wondering what others thought on this subject.

[gbh]

In thinking more about this idea, the child can be likened unto Jesus Christ, who was the lamb brought before the slaughter. A child, who in the situation of 20 others, would have realized the need for his life and willingly offered it. The savior is the monster who would kill him, who would be Pontius Pilate. The people then remain unchanged and indifferent. Pontius Pilate was just assuring the peace, maybe perhaps even worrying about his own head should he not commit this monsterous act. Had the 20 people rebelled and said, if the child dies then we shall all die for it is not right that the one should die so that we all should live. Similarly, had the masses set aside their religious indifferences, Heaven would have been attained. God did not kill Jesus Christ, man did. Jesus Christ showed obedience to the right way of life, even if it meant dying for it. So, Jesus was right when he stated, “Men must change, before Kingdoms change.”

So, how can we resolve this issue with what Peter stated when he tried to figure out a way to save Jesus from being killed? Peter was asking Jesus to run away from his duty to do what is right. He could have lived had people changed, but instead he is now the symbol and spiritual life blood for a righteous way of life.

[Greatest I Am]

In thinking more about this idea, the child can be likened unto Jesus Christ, who was the lamb brought before the slaughter. A child, who in the situation of 20 others, would have realized the need for his life and willingly offered it. The savior is the monster who would kill him, who would be Pontius Pilate. The people then remain unchanged and indifferent. Pontius Pilate was just assuring the peace, maybe perhaps even worrying about his own head should he not commit this monsterous act. Had the 20 people rebelled and said, if the child dies then we shall all die for it is not right that the one should die so that we all should live. Similarly, had the masses set aside their religious indifferences, Heaven would have been attained. God did not kill Jesus Christ, man did. Jesus Christ showed obedience to the right way of life, even if it meant dying for it. So, Jesus was right when he stated, “Men must change, before Kingdoms change.”

So, how can we resolve this issue with what Peter stated when he tried to figure out a way to save Jesus from being killed? Peter was asking Jesus to run away from his duty to do what is right. He could have lived had people changed, but instead he is now the symbol and spiritual life blood for a righteous way of life.

It was the custom of the day to assume that a new religion would die if it's founder did not die a martyr.

Jesus I am sure was aware of this.

Regards
DL

[Flail]

This OP reminds me of the old indian story my great grandfather(part native american) told tell me when I was a child.

An American Indian chief was walking along the 'trail of tears' while being herded to a Christian reservation with his tribe and family including his young grandson. The grandson was angry with the white men Christians for their murder and subjugation of his tribe and family from their native lands in the name of God....so, in order to teach his grandson a lesson of peace and to quell the young boy's anger and to teach him a lesson for life, the Chief told his grandson the following:

"My son, we, all of us, have two wolves living within us...one wolf is an animal of hate,revenge,self righteousness and judgement...the other wolf is an animal of love, tolerance,understanding and kindness...these two wolves live within all of us...within me and you and the white man..all of us are the same....these two wolves inside each of us are fighting a battle to be victorious over our nature...

the grandson said..."but Grandpa, which wolf will win?

...to which the great Chief replied to his beloved Grandson...

"the wolf that you decide to feed will be the wolf who will survive within you...so you must make a choice my son, which wolf shall you feed?"

When my Great Grandfather died, my father read the poem 'Thanitopsis" by William Cullen Bryant, over his grave...and I will do the same over his grave as will my son over mine.....which wolf will you teach and which have you become?

[Greatest I Am]

This OP reminds me of the old indian story my great grandfather(part native american) told tell me when I was a child.

An American Indian chief was walking along the 'trail of tears' while being herded to a Christian reservation with his tribe and family including his young grandson. The grandson was angry with the white men Christians for their murder and subjugation of his tribe and family from their native lands in the name of God....so, in order to teach his grandson a lesson of peace and to quell the young boy's anger and to teach him a lesson for life, the Chief told his grandson the following:

"My son, we, all of us, have two wolves living within us...one wolf is an animal of hate,revenge,self righteousness and judgement...the other wolf is an animal of love, tolerance,understanding and kindness...these two wolves live within all of us...within me and you and the white man..all of us are the same....these two wolves inside each of us are fighting a battle to be victorious over our nature...

the grandson said..."but Grandpa, which wolf will win?

...to which the great Chief replied to his beloved Grandson...

"the wolf that you decide to feed will be the wolf who will survive within you...so you must make a choice my son, which wolf shall you feed?"

When my Great Grandfather died, my father read the poem 'Thanitopsis" by William Cullen Bryant, over his grave...and I will do the same over his grave as will my son over mine.....which wolf will you teach and which have you become?

Christians do not have wolves, they have a little devil on one shoulder and a little angel on the other.
They just have a hard time sometimes dithering out who is talking.

Regards
DL

[gbh]

Not to doubt your good intentions and position but I know that actually being placed in one of the stated scenario, most would do the right thing.No one would sit by feeling sorry for their moral position when there are (not a life to take) but lives to save.Those who cannot live with the guilt later will deal with it under a separate cover, after they save those who can be saved.

GIA, I was wrong...something occurred, not the life or death of a child - other than analogically speaking, where I came to the conclusion that you are right...where a decision had to be made that I did not like, but to not make that decision would mean a result of something much worse in the future. Being a parent isn't for the faint-hearted. Thanks for the reality check.

[Greatest I Am]

Not to doubt your good intentions and position but I know that actually being placed in one of the stated scenario, most would do the right thing.No one would sit by feeling sorry for their moral position when there are (not a life to take) but lives to save.Those who cannot live with the guilt later will deal with it under a separate cover, after they save those who can be saved.

GIA, I was wrong...something occurred, not the life or death of a child - other than analogically speaking, where I came to the conclusion that you are right...where a decision had to be made that I did not like, but to not make that decision would mean a result of something much worse in the future. Being a parent isn't for the faint-hearted. Thanks for the reality check.

My pleasure.

Regards
DL